Plan referred to in deeds

Dex_3199
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Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:17 am

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with deed plan that are filed with the land registry and form part of the deeds.

I ask this because I believe my neighbour is trespassing beyond the scope of the easement agreed in the deeds.

The 1962 deeds state the usual of: the purchaser shall in common with the vendor have a right to pass and repass with or without vehicles not exceeding one ton through the access way over the portion of the area coloured blue.

The plan shows the two properties and also the area coloured blue, the plan has a scale of one inch to ten feet, I understand I’m not a surveyor but the measurements do all match on the ground with regards to buildings except for their extension with it being build afterward.

I believe my neighbour is trespassing as they built an extension in 1976 reducing the opening of their land however they never used the land for vehicles until 2001 something we can prove with photos for example they had a wooden fence and gate up for access by foot only. So they have only been trespassing with a vehicle for 17-18 years so prescription couldn’t extend the easement surely?

I believe they are trespassing as their vehicle drives over the area coloured blue onto land that is not subject to the easement to be able to get onto their land, thus requiring them to use more of our land due to deciding to build that extension.

I could understand the easement could be interpreted purposely if they required “swing space” from the beginning if there was no extension but I don’t see why we should give up more land to allow access.

If the blue area is clear on this scale of one inch to ten feet then surely there is a reason for it ? Otherwise they could drive on every part of our land (not that’s there is much more but you see my point)

Unfortunately I cannot upload any images on here but will be happy to email the plan to anyone interested to see it.

Thank you

J

siteone

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by siteone » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:29 am

Are there any other features on the plan showing the blue area including paths etc?

Dex_3199
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:03 pm

No the blue area represents the driveway then it cuts off at the top as at the time it was drawn up the predecessors the dominant tenement would not need to use land beyond the blue area as their opening was clearly sufficient.

Dex_3199
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:07 pm

DB434C4C-9DD2-4C1D-B75E-0BDF57D18759.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Dex_3199
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:08 pm

Is that attachment showing ? I am no.16 the neighbour is no.15

arborlad
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by arborlad » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Before you get too deeply entrenched in numbers and plans, have a read of this thread - some good guidance there: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3149

When did you purchase your property, likewise your neighbour?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Dex_3199
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:15 am

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:04 pm

Thanks I have read it, I’ve read a lot of case law too where the judges reinforce that neighbours should sort it out themselves. We do have plenty of photos and solicitors are already involved.

None of the boundaries have moved as this is not simply about fences for example. It’s about the neighbour using more land than was agreed.

I also don’t understand why this detailed plan would have a scale of one inch to 10 feet if that’s not how you measure it on the ground, an inch has always been an inch and likewise for feet.

I understand the points raised about plans but don’t these often refer to people trying to measure site plans taken from the ordinance survey maps, that would be impossible to measure and the land registry warn of this.

I’m just looking for some input to any experience someone might have with the blue area, we’ve had advice already and are going to instruct a chartered land surveyor but it’s always good to hear others first hand experience. Thanks

Dex_3199
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:06 pm

Properties were purchased 1975 for the neighbour and 1978 for ours

MacadamB53
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by MacadamB53 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:21 pm

Hi Dex_3199,

how far beyond the blue area are you alleging they’ve been trespassing?

kind regards, Mac

ukmicky
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by ukmicky » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Who owns the other land.
Is thier use in anyway benefiting the other land they are going onto .
How much of the other land are they using . In other words are they still on the ROW but have two wheels on the other land.


What car do they have and does it weigh more than a tonne
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

mr sheen
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by mr sheen » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:52 pm

Issues I see with this case:
- It is well-nigh impossible to prove that someone did NOT do something over 15 years where that person gives direct witness testimony that they did do it ( photos show a static moment in time of a split second on one day)
-only 3years' use is missing for a prescriptive right of way
- the plan shown is just a 'plan'. It is not a 'to scale' scaled surveyors document which would include many measurements on the diagram so the scale on this plan would be poor evidence of the measurements to be represented on the ground

Dex_3199
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:00 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:21 pm
Hi Dex_3199,

how far beyond the blue area are you alleging they’ve been trespassing?

kind regards, Mac
Hi Mac,

Almost 1ft 6” west (swing) and 3ft south at the top of the blue area.

Dex_3199
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:04 pm

ukmicky wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:09 pm
Who owns the other land.
Is thier use in anyway benefiting the other land they are going onto .
How much of the other land are they using . In other words are they still on the ROW but have two wheels on the other land.


What car do they have and does it weigh more than a tonne
Sorry I have failed to mention there is two first floor bedrooms that are above the access road referred to as an archway. Is that the other land you mention?

They have their car still on the blue area but need to drive off to be able to get onto their own land.

It’s an Audi A1 it weighs over 1 ton.

Dex_3199
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:15 am

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:06 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Issues I see with this case:
- It is well-nigh impossible to prove that someone did NOT do something over 15 years where that person gives direct witness testimony that they did do it ( photos show a static moment in time of a split second on one day)
-only 3years' use is missing for a prescriptive right of way
- the plan shown is just a 'plan'. It is not a 'to scale' scaled surveyors document which would include many measurements on the diagram so the scale on this plan would be poor evidence of the measurements to be represented on the ground
I do see your point, what type of plan is it ? Obviously a more clear plan was needed rather than trying to mark the right of way on an ordinance survey map.

ukmicky
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Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by ukmicky » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:56 pm

You can enforce the 1 tonne restriction if that helps
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

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