right of way

ukmicky
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Re: right of way

Post by ukmicky » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:43 pm

missmakepeace wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:51 pm
Today I was verbally abused and physically threatened with a log of wood. The neighbours log delivery came seconds before I needed access to get get to a 1pm appointment.
I did manage to video some of the incident on my phone.
An occasional temporary blockage for deliveries etc is allowed under the law
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

MacadamB53
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Re: right of way

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:55 pm

missmakepeace wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:51 pm
Today I was verbally abused and physically threatened with a log of wood. The neighbours log delivery came seconds before I needed access to get get to a 1pm appointment.
I did manage to video some of the incident on my phone.
were you verbally abused and physically threatened because you tried to disrupt the log delivery? did you tell them they weren’t allowed to block “your” RoW?

if so, you need to be careful that you don’t become part of the problem because, as inconvenient as it may have been for you, they were not acting unlawfully - they are allowed to block the RoW so long as it’s only on a temporary and infrequent basis.

kind regards, Mac

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:46 am

HI,
As I went out to open the gate onto the ROW I noticed that they had had some logs delivered. The delivery driver was just about to leave. I went back into the house for a short while, then came out again to see if the logs had been moved. They hadn't. I drove onto the ROW and took a photo on my phone. The neighbour who had been hiding behind the log store started shouting things at me. I got into the car and drove down the ROW, put my window down to try and speak to her and was threatened with the log in her hand and verbally abused. I then proceeded to video the situation. The neighbour proceeded to say obscenities, but was moving the logs from time to time. After a few minutes there was clearance for me to drive past and I moved on. I usually wait until they have completely moved the logs, but yesterday I did have an appointment and was 30 minutes late.

Thank you again for the information.

mr sheen
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Re: right of way

Post by mr sheen » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:41 am

You are in danger of falling into the trap of adding all annoyances together and getting a huge neighbour dispute with multiple factors that Makes both parties appear to be as bad as one another.

They have the right to have logs delivered. They have the right to move them in a reasonable time even if that means temporary inconvenience to you...you knowingly bought a property with dependencies on a neighbouring property so you have to be reasonable.

They don’t have the right to interfere with your right of way to the barn so this needs to be the key focus of the dispute rather than deflecting the focus to peripheral minor irritations.

Have you made the right of way fit for purpose?
Have you replied to their letter?
Have they responded further?

stufe35
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Re: right of way

Post by stufe35 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:11 am

This is where it really pays to get on with your neighbours if you share the use of a track. Imagine if your neighbours were your best friends. Quite simply they would have said to you that they were getting a log delivery sometime next Tuesday afternoon...and you would have known to move your car out earlier in the day so that it would not become blocked in. Everyone would be happy.

Rights of way rely on reasonable use (usually helped greatly by good communication) by all parties, otherwise it can become very difficult, unpleasant and expensive. - i speak from first hand experience.

Whilst the law places the ounus on your neighbours to keep the access way clear for your use 24/7, in practice it is far too difficult and far too expensive to gather evidence and get a court to intervene for the kind of thing that has happened to you ; you need to prove substantial interference---which means you wont be successful unless you can prove malicious intent and/or serious practical inconvenience on a reoccuring basis.
Your neighbours can go to the opposite of what i posted above, not tell you logs are coming, time the delivery to cause maximum inconvenience to you, and drag there heals when clearing the pile. How do you really demonstrate to a court that this is happening ? and solicitor bills are measured in thousands, not hundreds.
Next they will leave their car there and you will have to go knocking to get it shifted, next your deliveries will be turned away when your not there, next 3 or 4 gates on its length, next one of them locked.

Even what you've described could have 2 different out comes in the same court depending on the exact circumstances as each case will turn on its precise merits and details. If your neighbours have no where else to tip logs and it is impratical to lead them from another place with a wheel barrow (for example) a court may rule they have done no wrong. However if they own land nearby where the logs could be tipped that would not effect you the court may take a different view. ie the layout of the properties counts.

On the upside your neighbour must have had some advise about not blocking the track, as despite their clear annoyance at your presence, they did not test to see what you would ultimately do...they kept on shifting the logs.

My advice and i know it far easier said than done, is to try and get in dialogue with your neighbours and turn this situation around. Otherwise it will blight your life for years. They too are probably not fully aware of the law . It has probably come as a shock to them that ultimately you can go in dig up their land and install a track and start using it far more frequently than it has been used historically and there is precious little they can do to resist.....other than of course push the limits of acceptablity in behaviour by being plain difficult and obstructive.

MacadamB53
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Re: right of way

Post by MacadamB53 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:55 am

Hi missmakepeace,

On the upside... ...despite their clear annoyance at your presence, they did not test to see what you would ultimately do...they kept on shifting the logs.

and they’ve not installed locked gates or parked a tractor on the RoW outside your drive/garden - the kinds of thing a real NFH would have already done by now...

kind regards, Mac

Volumiza
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Re: right of way

Post by Volumiza » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:22 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:41 am
You are in danger of falling into the trap of adding all annoyances together and getting a huge neighbour dispute with multiple factors that Makes both parties appear to be as bad as one another.

They have the right to have logs delivered. They have the right to move them in a reasonable time even if that means temporary inconvenience to you...you knowingly bought a property with dependencies on a neighbouring property so you have to be reasonable.
@missmakepeace ... read this, soak it in, read it again and make sure you soak it in and if it hasn't soaked in at that point read it as many times as necessary. I can speak from experience that these two paragraphs are spot on.

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:42 pm

Thanks to you all again.
We wrote back to the solicitors about two weeks ago and have heard nothing.
We have had a tradesman assess the ROW and he is doing the ground work early in the new year.
The builder erected scaffolding on the barn on Monday.
During the exchange yesterday my neighbour said she was going to see her solicitor and take out an injunction after we have completed the renovation and she will challenge all our guests for trespassing.
If the worst happens our guests will have ro park on the road and walk through our neighbours garden as there is a public footpath
Running through it.
If they have heavy luggage we will transport it to the barn in our car.
We don't intent to give in at this stage. We are prepared for a rough ride and must remember to remain calm and composed and adhere to the main priorities.
Thanks again.

mr sheen
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Re: right of way

Post by mr sheen » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:50 pm

A right of way goes with the property ie every inch of your property benefits from the right of way and all invitees can legitimately use it so yet again more hot air.
They could try to claim excessive use but this is extremely difficult to prove and win and will prove costly and be high risk.

stufe35
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Re: right of way

Post by stufe35 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:46 pm

How's it going?

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:21 pm

We are a few weeks into the renovation and have tried to use alternative measures to get materials on site via another neighbour. Ferrying materials over his hedge. He has been amazing. The ROW has been partially dug out and aggregated. We will finish in suitable material after the builders have gone. The weather has not helped. Hopefully all will turn out well for all concerned. Xx. Time will tell.

arborlad
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Re: right of way

Post by arborlad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:14 am

arborlad wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:03 am
arborlad wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:29 am
Any chance of a sketch or anonymised title plan which identifies different land ownerships and areas of easements.



It's difficult to give any sort of meaningful advice without some idea of the layout. Having deliveries via the goodwill of another neighbour is not acceptable when they could be made with the lorry standing wholly or partially on your land using the Vehicular Right of Way which you purchased as part of your property and should by now be fit for purpose. How are your guests going to access the property?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

stufe35
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Re: right of way

Post by stufe35 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:25 pm

I totally understand why you are avoiding using your perfectly legitimate right to use your right of way for the delivery of materials;, my experience was when I did what you are doing is that it simply increased my neighbours belief that they could tell me what should and shouldn't use the right of way to my house.

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:34 pm

Our builders are accessing the ROW with a transit size van and a smaller one. They have not been challenged for travelling up and down, put have been challenged once once for parking to unload materials. We have had tractors and trailers accessing the ROW to take away soil and rubble and deliver the digger that dug out the car parking area. The larger lorries are using a lane that runs parallel with the ROW and are using a hi ab to deliver the heavier items. These lorries would need to park on the ROW to enable delivery, however this would only be for a few minutes. Our neighbours have not challenged any of the tractor drivers etc for using the ROW.
We intend to use the ROW as stated in our deed of grant. As you say we purchased it with the property. I have gained so much knowledge from posts on this site and
feel empowered to deal with the intimidation and bullying tactics which have been previously used.

Thanks again

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