right of way

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Fri May 24, 2019 8:08 pm

The letter does come from a legal firm. It does not state why they will challenge our builder for trespass.
They want me to contact the planning department and say we made mistakes in our planning application?
When it wasn't.

siteone

Re: right of way

Post by siteone » Fri May 24, 2019 8:41 pm

Have you sent info of your right of way, in a letter back to the legal people.

IdefixUK
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Re: right of way

Post by IdefixUK » Fri May 24, 2019 8:49 pm

You could reply to that legal firm asking for precise details of any problems they forsee with your builders using the right of way to your property. Also (later) in a separate letter, ask them to fully explain their inference about the planning application.
You will realise that each and every time they respond it will be costing your neighbour, whereas the cost to you is for a stamp and envelope. (Keep copies of all correspondence. Keep only to the point in your letters and don't be tempted to pad the letters out).
Solicitors will often write letters on behalf of their clients knowing very well that the letters have no standing legally. Such letters are just sent to frighten you and hopefully to get you to back off with your plans. It has often been called the three B's . Bullying, Bluster and Bullshite ( and other similar words).

Missmakepeace, are there some words in the easment (right of way) written in your deeds that particularly worry you?

Regards

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Sat May 25, 2019 7:52 am

We don't understand the piece that says not to pass and repass. The letter came with a copy of the deed of grant. In the letter it states that their clients refer to the land being landlocked up until 2013. Hover this is not the case. Many people most fromantic farming families have acceded our land and previous Forge through that gate. Stating their fathers and grandfather's had.
Our neighbours are not ftom the village and very little about its history.
Thanks again for all advice.

arborlad
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Re: right of way

Post by arborlad » Sat May 25, 2019 8:29 am

Any chance of a sketch or anonymised title plan which identifies different land ownerships and areas of easements.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

IdefixUK
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Re: right of way

Post by IdefixUK » Sat May 25, 2019 1:34 pm

Missmakepeace,
My own thoughts follow.
Whether or not your property was"landlocked" until 2013 is totally irrelevant (the three B's in action!) as your land is certainly not "landlocked" now. You have a legal right to use the easement (right of way) as stated in your title deeds. The legal team working for your neighbour will (or should) know this.
Regarding the wording: the lack of punctuation in these legal documents can seem confusing. The way I read it is a follows;
".......use and enjoyment of the property (but not for any other purpose whatsoever) to pass and repass over the track...."
The easement will apply to anyone who has legitimate business in accessing your property, this will include the builders and anyone who may rent the holiday accommodation from you.
From what we know from you in this thread the only cause for some concern might be that the neighbours could argue that the use of the right will be excessive when the barn is converted and let out, but from what I've read I don't think that arguement will "stick".
You will realise that a right of way is simply that....no parking, no erection of scaffolding, no placement of skips etc.
Other posters may well disagree with my comments and interpretation.

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Sat May 25, 2019 3:39 pm

The easement is fir the whole of our registered footprint including the barn and garden area surrounding it.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:53 pm

Can anyone tell me if the surface of a vehicular right of way has to be fit for purpose and if so who is responsible, the grantee or grantor or both?
Thank you

arborlad
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Re: right of way

Post by arborlad » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:58 pm

You have time to delete your post from the other thread - before it gets complicated.
arborlad

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mr sheen
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Re: right of way

Post by mr sheen » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:35 pm

The surface can be maintained to enable full enjoyment of the right to pass and repass but there is no compulsion to maintain it.
The servient tenement (grantor) need do nothing to the land that comprises the right of way, so it is up to the dominant tenement in most cases to keep it maintained, but there is no compulsion to do so.

IdefixUK
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Re: right of way

Post by IdefixUK » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:09 pm

missmakepeace wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:14 am
2 The Grantee hereby covenants with the Grantors and their successors in title that the Grantee and his successors in title will form from time to time contribute a fair proportion according to user of the cost of keeping the said track in repair, the proportion in case of difference to be determined by a Single Arbitrator appointed under the Arbitrator Act 1996 or any statuary modification or replacement thereof for the time being in force and the right of way hereby granted shall be exercisableduring any period which there shall be any breach of this present covenant which shall not have been remedied by the payment of all money payable thereafter.
I've copied this from the posting you made in May of this year. Assuming that you haven't moved on, then this part of your deeds is perhaps what you are looking for. It clearly says that you are responsible for paying a contribution towards the repair of the track, and if you and the track owner (and any other legitimate users) cannot come to an agreement about how much you should each pay, then it allows for an arbitrator to make that descision.
What the wording does not do is to indicate to what state of disrepair the track must fall before repairs would be considererd necessary. That said, I believe that you, as the dominant owner, will have the right (ancillary rights) to repair the track at your own cost. However, you only have the right to repair the surface of the track to the state it was in when the right was granted (assuming that at that time it was fit for purpose of the intended use of the track). So if the track was covered with gravel, you could replace or top-up with gravel, but you would not be acting lawfully were you to tarmac the surface.

Have you discussed the situation with the owner? Is there a problem?

Regards

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 pm

Hi
The surface is gravel for about 2 meters, just where tyres grip the ground. The center is grass. The following 4 meters is all grass and is on an incline, so vehicles do churn it up. I would like to make it all gravel. two gravel trods with a grass between. Do I need to inform the owners of my intention to gravel the trods to enable vehicles to gain traction?

missmakepeace
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Re: right of way

Post by missmakepeace » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:23 pm

There is a problem. They refuse to discuss anything with us.

stufe35
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Re: right of way

Post by stufe35 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:35 pm

Your right of way specifically states it is for use with vehicles , hence your are allowed to create a surface fit for that purpose if one does not already exist. There is some case law dating back years on this. Says something like ...a right of way granted is no use if you will sink up to the naives of your axles with your cart.

To not allow it would be derogration of grant-- you cant give a grant with one hand and take it away with the other.

MacadamB53
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Re: right of way

Post by MacadamB53 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 pm

missmakepeace wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 pm
Hi
The surface is gravel for about 2 meters, just where tyres grip the ground. The center is grass. The following 4 meters is all grass and is on an incline, so vehicles do churn it up. I would like to make it all gravel. two gravel trods with a grass between. Do I need to inform the owners of my intention to gravel the trods to enable vehicles to gain traction?
no - but why on earth wouldn’t you?

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