House Extension in Private Road

homefromhome
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by homefromhome »

Thanks All - Really appreciate the advice.

KR.
homefromhome
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by homefromhome »

Great - Thank you all. Will let you know the outcome.
homefromhome
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by homefromhome »

Hi All,

My Response -

Right of Way – I respectfully refer you to the rights purchased with my property, as specified in the deeds “Right of Way at all times and for all purposes connected with the use and enjoyment and occupation of the said hereditaments over and along the said road known as xxxxxxx Way from the hereditaments hereby conveyed to and from the High Road leading from xxxxxxx to xxxxxxx.” ie all invitees having a legitimate business at my property have the right to pass and repass over and along the roadway serving the property. Presumably these rights apply equally to all other properties irrespective of the number of cars owned, number of visitors, number of deliveries etc. The Road Association has no right to monitor or seek to control usage of the access or to seek to undermine the rights granted to each property.

I do understand the committee’s concern for building and I will be as understanding as possible through-out the build process to the terms you have mentioned but I am not prepared to sign something that causes me a problem further down the line.

Response from the Committee:

From the clear legal advice that we have received, your understanding and interpretation of the rights purchased is incorrect. Your ‘use and enjoyment’ does not extend to additional vehicular movements associated with major works and the Association is well within its rights to control or even refuse these. We are not, of course, refusing them and quite prepared to permit them but we do require to formalise matters, as we have done with others, in order that everyone understands that they are using the road because we have granted a temporary right of way, subject to our code of practice and other terms.

I believe that we explained the need to proceed on this basis, to protect our private road status and, in addition to minimise both problems and loss of amenity to our residents. Our formalities address these matters and the granting of the temporary right of way removes the hurdle to your access.

We are not unaware of the occasional difficulties that you may face with deliveries etc and, as I have repeatedly said, we will always try to work with you and be flexible whenever we can but what we are asking is perfectly reasonable and well within our legal rights.


I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the reply.

Thanks
MacadamB53
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by MacadamB53 »

homefromhome wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:48 pm Hi All,

My Response -

Right of Way – I respectfully refer you to the rights purchased with my property, as specified in the deeds “Right of Way at all times and for all purposes connected with the use and enjoyment and occupation of the said hereditaments over and along the said road known as xxxxxxx Way from the hereditaments hereby conveyed to and from the High Road leading from xxxxxxx to xxxxxxx.” ie all invitees having a legitimate business at my property have the right to pass and repass over and along the roadway serving the property. Presumably these rights apply equally to all other properties irrespective of the number of cars owned, number of visitors, number of deliveries etc. The Road Association has no right to monitor or seek to control usage of the access or to seek to undermine the rights granted to each property.

I do understand the committee’s concern for building and I will be as understanding as possible through-out the build process to the terms you have mentioned but I am not prepared to sign something that causes me a problem further down the line.

Response from the Committee:

From the clear legal advice that we have received, your understanding and interpretation of the rights purchased is incorrect. Your ‘use and enjoyment’ does not extend to additional vehicular movements associated with major works and the Association is well within its rights to control or even refuse these. We are not, of course, refusing them and quite prepared to permit them but we do require to formalise matters, as we have done with others, in order that everyone understands that they are using the road because we have granted a temporary right of way, subject to our code of practice and other terms.

I believe that we explained the need to proceed on this basis, to protect our private road status and, in addition to minimise both problems and loss of amenity to our residents. Our formalities address these matters and the granting of the temporary right of way removes the hurdle to your access.

We are not unaware of the occasional difficulties that you may face with deliveries etc and, as I have repeatedly said, we will always try to work with you and be flexible whenever we can but what we are asking is perfectly reasonable and well within our legal rights.


I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the reply.

Thanks
what a load of unsubstantiated crap.

don’t enter into any other dialogue other than to inform them that you do not recognise any legal truth in their statement: “Your ‘use and enjoyment’ does not extend to additional vehicular movements associated with major works” and reiterate that you understand the committee’s concern for building and will be as understanding as possible throughout the build process...

kind regards, Mac
span
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by span »

"See you in court."

Send them that.

Inform your insurer if you have legal cover.
span
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by span »

Or, ask them for a copy of their clear legal advice (and who issued it) so you can have your lawman review it.

Maybe they're right, maybe you're wrong. You want to be seen to be reasonable before going Hardline. Asking for a copy of their advice do you can consider your position seems reasonable enough.

Once you get a copy, then go hardline if necessary.
stufe35
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by stufe35 »

Id write back telling them that contrary to their letter it is your understanding that in established English property law the right of way you have extends to all vehicle movements required in connection with the legal use of your property . If they dispute this perhaps they could inform you of the aspects of law they are referring to.
stufe35
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by stufe35 »

You might do well to ask for the details of this 'road association' its constitution and ask them for their 'code of practice and other terms' and for the documents where you signed up and agreed to them.

It would be interesting for the members of this forum if nothing else !

One cant help thinking it will essentially one person (most likely the owner of the road) using the scheme to get money out of everyone. They have almost given this away by using "i have repeatedly said" instead of "we" one would expect from letter written by a committee and not one person.

You may have an issue with your house legal insurance covering this because they sometimes do not except claims in the first few months...but you would do well to check up if you have cover. Personally i wouldnt inform them just yet, wait for the next response its most likey to be be more codswallop.
Collaborate
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by Collaborate »

There is only so far that communicating like this can take you. You need to stand back from this message board (other than to let us know how you get on). Get a lawyer involved. You either carry on regardless (and challenge them to get an injunction or claim for damages issued, which you defend) or you seek declaratory relief from the court, but I'd do neither without the advice of a specialist solicitor.
mr sheen
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by mr sheen »

What a cheeky try on! Interesting they stress they are not ‘refusing permisssion’ but want a voluntary grant of control given to them!

I would reply.....

I reiterate my position outlined in my letter dated.....

Please provide, within 5 days, copies of documentation that you are relying upon to support your assertion that, contrary to the rights granted in the deeds, the ‘Association’ has the right to control the grant and refusal of permission to pass and repass over the land designated as a right of way at all times and for all purposes to and from my property.

I hope that this matter can be resolved amicably and quickly. However, in the meantime, S hould any invitée having legitimate business at my property suffer losses as a result of interference of their right to pass and repass to and from my property, appropriate action will be taken to recover all and any losses along with associated costs against the relevant individuals and/or the ‘Association’.


(Note- there is a risk that the ‘association’ will just fold if they are pursued in court leaving costs to be covered so it is important to talk about individuals so that they can’t hide behind the association.)
ukmicky
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by ukmicky »

Unless you have some form of documentation we are not aware of and providing you have not signed something agreeing to be in their association you are not in the road association .

Write back and say the previous road agreement you had with the former owner of my property agreeing to the the terms of the road Association agreement came to an end when he sold his property. As I was not formally party to the original agreement under contract law I am legally not bound by the agreement or its terms.

Lastly the only way a maintenance agreement can bind a successor in title is under the no benefit without burden principle but as the benefit (easement ) and burden (maintenance were ) were not conferred in the same transaction and the original easement is not conditional and relevant to the burden this agreement you had with the previous owner of my property does not also legally bind successors in title.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
SwitchRich
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by SwitchRich »

Gotta love this forum and the good advice you get.
It might also be worth taking pictures of the road now before the work has started so that you can show the state it was in. And I like the comment offering a gift of monies should there be any damage caused by the work.
Perhaps acknowledging this in your reply might show you as being as conciliatory as possible while still standing for your rights. Good luck and do keep us informed of how it goes.
mr sheen
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by mr sheen »

.Do NOT offer any payment.
This will potentially create a new contract/agreement.

Thé OP has already purchased rights as defined in the deeds. Additional payment and new agreement is what the association want and any offer of payment will give it to them.

Who assesses damage? How is any damage assigned to the OP.....nightmare scenario.
Collaborate
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by Collaborate »

mr sheen wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:42 pm .Do NOT offer any payment.
This will potentially create a new contract/agreement.

Thé OP has already purchased rights as defined in the deeds. Additional payment and new agreement is what the association want and any offer of payment will give it to them.

Who assesses damage? How is any damage assigned to the OP.....nightmare scenario.
I agree 100%.
MacadamB53
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Re: House Extension in Private Road

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:50 pm
mr sheen wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:42 pm .Do NOT offer any payment.
This will potentially create a new contract/agreement.

Thé OP has already purchased rights as defined in the deeds. Additional payment and new agreement is what the association want and any offer of payment will give it to them.

Who assesses damage? How is any damage assigned to the OP.....nightmare scenario.
I agree 100%.
+1
deal with claims of damage in a considerate and civil fashion only if they arise, not before
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