Neighbours using my garden yard but no easement on my deeds?

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Petra77
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Easements - right of way

Post by Petra77 »

Hello :D

I have an issue regarding a piece of land attached to my property - on my deeds This was acquired as an open yard which due to my neighbour use of this land and behaviour I wish to completely close off. My neighbours represent 3 house holds, No 56/58/60 whom claim to have absolute access and for any purpose including cars / van / horse and cart / bins etc.

Houses 56/58/60 are owned by one common landlord ( Mr F ) who has recently died and passed on to his son ( Mr M )

As far as I can see there used to be an easement in place 1960 This was incorporated by a company whom appears to have owned all the property’s and when they sold them off individually created as easement so all households could access their property’s by vehicle and also the allotment gardens.

Mr F then buys No 52/56/58/60 in the early 1970s including the allotment gardens, which he then sold, which was made by third party’s into a Houseing estate. A new road was build to serve the housing estate and also connected property’s 56/58/60 - this main public road. ( 52 / 54 connected to adjoining road )

Iv been studying the deeds of all 4 property’s and it’s appears mine is the only one with the easement still on it?
Property’s 52/ 56/58/60 all appear to have access rights to use my land as a ‘common yard’ while obtaining private rights over their own land and section of yard ??

My question is this, if a common yard / road was created to access the houses 56/58/60 and allotment gardens before Mr F brought all these property’s wouldn’t the easement if still valid, also be on his deeds? The fact that it’s not leads me to believe that Mr F managed to extinguish this when he sold the allotment gardens and a new road was build. Wouldn’t that act also extinguished the easement on my property? On Mr F deeds of 56/58/60 it claims to have full and private rights over his own property’s while also claiming to have full access of my property for all his houses 52/56/58/60 ?

It just looks like, there something very fishy about this to me,

I might also add the Mr F was a notoriously ruthless land owner when alive whom had a reputation for bullying and stealing land from under people. The property’s 52 is now in private hands and 56/58/60 have been passed on to his son.

All four property’s are using my small parcel of land for what ever purpose they won’t, and I think this is unlawful and needs to be stopped before the claim an easement by perception

Any advice please
Thanks x
Collaborate
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Re: Easements - right of way

Post by Collaborate »

Sarahchap01 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:21 pm Hello :D

I have an issue regarding a piece of land attached to my property - on my deeds This was acquired as an open yard which due to my neighbour use of this land and behaviour I wish to completely close off. My neighbours represent 3 house holds, No 56/58/60 whom claim to have absolute access and for any purpose including cars / van / horse and cart / bins etc.

Houses 56/58/60 are owned by one common landlord ( Mr F ) who has recently died and passed on to his son ( Mr M )

As far as I can see there used to be an easement in place 1960 What does the easement say? This What do you mean by "this"? The easement? Land? Which land? was incorporated what do you mean by "incorporated? The word means either "taken in" or constituted as a companyby a company whom appears to have owned all the property’s and when they sold them off individually created as easement so all households could access their property’s by vehicle and also the allotment gardens. So each of the properties 56-60 was granted the benefit of an easement? Is this the easement over your land?

Mr F then buys No 52/56/58/60 in the early 1970s including the allotment gardens, which he then sold, which was made by third party’s into a Houseing estate. A new road was build to serve the housing estate and also connected property’s 56/58/60 - this main public road. ( 52 / 54 connected to adjoining road )

Iv been studying the deeds of all 4 property’s and it’s appears mine is the only one with the easement still on it?
Property’s 52/ 56/58/60 all appear to have access rights to use my land as a ‘common yard’ while obtaining private rights over their own land and section of yard ??

My question is this, if a common yard / road was created to access the houses 56/58/60 and allotment gardens before Mr F brought all these property’s wouldn’t the easement if still valid, also be on his deeds? The fact that it’s not leads me to believe that Mr F managed to extinguish this when he sold the allotment gardens and a new road was build. Wouldn’t that act also extinguished the easement on my property? On Mr F deeds of 56/58/60 it claims to have full and private rights over his own property’s while also claiming to have full access of my property for all his houses 52/56/58/60 ? I've given up trying to understand by this stage

It just looks like, there something very fishy about this to me,

I might also add the Mr F was a notoriously ruthless land owner when alive whom had a reputation for bullying and stealing land from under people. The property’s 52 is now in private hands and 56/58/60 have been passed on to his son.

All four property’s are using my small parcel of land for what ever purpose they won’t, and I think this is unlawful and needs to be stopped before the claim an easement by perception But you suggest there is an easement created by deed. Why would they need one by prescription?

Any advice please
Thanks x
I found it really difficult to make head or tail of your situation.
stufe35
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Re: Easements - right of way

Post by stufe35 »

A diagram or series of diagrams might help people unravel all this along with actual wording of easement(s). Along with a timeline of ownership and a list of the facts you know.
mr sheen
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Re: Easements - right of way

Post by mr sheen »

This looks complicated so you may need solicitor to review all the documents in detail to make head and tail of it.

In case this helps - It is land that comes with rights, every inch of it. There are a few ways in which these may disappear but these are rare. In general, unless there is an express agreement to relinquish a right granted, then chances are it still exists.
span
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Re: Easements - right of way

Post by span »

Sarahchap,

No doubt your post made perfect sense and is logical and lucid prose in your head when you were typing it but really, it isn't.

It's all very confusing to us who don't have your knowledge and levels of information and understanding.

Can you try again please? Write it out from the perspective of someone who knows nothing yet about this situation.

Include photos, maps, diagrams, links to Google Earth, excerpts from deeds, anything that gives clarity.
pilman
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Re: Easements - right of way

Post by pilman »

One matter that can be established is what happens to easements when someone buys a group of buildings.

As soon as that happens there is then no need for an easement over other parts of the same property that is now in common ownership.

All existing easements over those properties are extinguished.

So if for example the farthest of the three houses had a right of way over the next two to reach your yard, that was no longer necessary to pass and repass over the land that was part of the other two properties, but then all three still had a right of way to access your land, unless the allotments were in between those houses and your land. Then there would have to be a reservation clause included when the allotments were sold to allow access to be retained over the sold land.

Not knowing the lay-out of the properties and the area of land you are referring to no other sensible advice can be offered at this point.
Petra77
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Neighbours using my garden yard but no easement on my deeds?

Post by Petra77 »

Hello, I wonder if anyone out there can help me?

I am a single women ( NHS nurse ) and I own an old stone terrace corner property facing the public highway, with a small parcel of land to the side of it. My corner terrace is part of an old Manor House that has long been converted into 5 separate property.
presently I have 3 house holds that are all tenanted owned by one landlord, and one privately own house that seem to believe that my land is a 'common yard' while their yards & gardens parking spaces remains private.

Presently my neighbours 56/58/60 use my land to access there back yard, and leave there bins on my property during collection days, and beyond. Iv also had them park there car and drive across my land, including having delivery guys
walk straight past my kitchen window to deliver to their back door etc. I must point out that there is a perfectly good access from the front of all 3 houses by foot and by car, via an alternative public road, they are not in any way land locked, they seem to just like to use my land to access their back door
as its more convinent for them, and they believe this is their right to do this.

Recently iv been experiencing quite a lot of tension from them, as their use of my land has become really excessive. One neighbour has become incredible abusive towards me and uses very threatening and aggressive language, and he refuses to sit down and talk like sensible adults.

As the situation escalated, I did loads of research on easement, analysed mine and all four house deeds, and the quite a lot of digging around the recent history of the property.
Heres what I found out;

There is no easement on my deeds relating to houses 56/58/60
There is one easement for house 52 to make use of the old coal house that was once located on my property, but as this no longer exists ( destroyed by previous owner ) this use becomes extinguished. They do not need to walk across my property to access their front door as they face the main public road and have no back door.

Having looked into the history, it appear that house 52/56/58/60 were owned collective by Company S, and that the back yards were an unadopdted road that lead to a site area that company S was situated on. While 54 was in private hands, it looks like my house at 54 may have been owned by one of the directors, and there was an easement at that time that allowed Company S, to pass and repass across the road, 54/56/58/60. In the 1970 company S was liquidated and sold off, this is when the landlord Mr F, purchased property 52 /56 /58/60/ including the land company S was located on before it was demolished. A couple of years later Mr F sold off the large area of land once owned by the Company S and a retaining wall was built to block of the access the old unadopted road would have given access to the land of company S. A new road public highway was build via an alternative route by the purchaser of this land from Mr F, and a housing estate was developed. The new road allowed access by car to house 56/58/60 via the front door, while 52 remained as an end house facing the original public highway.

Having looked at the deeds of 56/58/60 There is basically one line that States there is a right of way over 54 ? THIS IS NOT ON MY DEEDS! this one line gives no reference to any document which my solicitor and I think is very fishy...
On a second line, different paragraph, it states there is a right of way from 56 - 60 ( all three houses are owned by the the landlord Mr F ) This right goes on for around 2 pages, where everything from tractors to lorries wagons, and horse and cart, kitchen sink, can cross..? ( THIS IS ALSO NOT ON MY DEEDS )

It appear to me, please tell me if you agree with me, or not... that Mr F brought the land that company S was located on, in the hope he might be able to develop this on the cheap by using the unadopted road of 54/56/58/60, but couldn't get access rights over 54 as it was in private hands, that right to pass and repass was own by company S which had been liquidated, thus extinguishing the easement. Perhaps this is why he sold off the land a couple of years later, and the unadopted road was blocked off. However, he still wonted to use the road as an access for his houses, 56/58/60 and so wrote some legal bobbins on his own deeds. It appears the easement over his own land to me appears to be nothing more than a bit of legal fiction. I mean he has wrote an easement over his own land, to make it look like there is a right of way going all the way along and across my property too. Also Mr F has died recently and the houses have passed on to his son Mr J.

Iv had my deeds looked at by a solicitor who has conformed there is no easement on my deeds for house 56/58/60 and he says they are effectively trespassing. He says that the only easement is relating to house 52 but as the coal house no longer exists, there is a strong argument that I can have this removed from my deeds.
My solicitor has states that the only easement they could have is by prescription, but that its up to them to prove this, as far as I'm aware the tenants presently in house 56/58/60 have not lived there 20 years.

Basically, my question is can I build a wall around my property to stop this trespassing? And what can the landlord do, if anything, to stop me? Im an NHS nurse, I cant possible afford a hefty legal battle, or solicitor fees. Im also sh1@%t scared of this land owner and their family as they are very wealthy and quite notorious land owners.

Please advice, Many Thanks x
MacadamB53
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Re: Neighbours using my garden yard but no easement on my deeds?

Post by MacadamB53 »

Hi Petra77,

Iv had my deeds looked at by a solicitor who has conformed there is no easement on my deeds for house 56/58/60

why did they only look at your deeds? you already knew there was no easement in there?!?

from the details you’ve provided it would seem the other properties having easements should not be dismissed...

kind regards, Mac
Petra77
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Re: Easements - right of way

Post by Petra77 »

Hi There

I apologise if this looks confusing.. I will try to explain again.



I own an old stone terrace corner property facing the public highway, with a small parcel of land to the side of it. My corner terrace is part of an old Manor House that has long been converted into 5 separate property.
presently I have 3 house holds that are all tenanted owned by one landlord, and one privately own house that seem to believe that my land is a 'common yard' while their yards & gardens parking spaces remains private.

Presently my neighbours 56/58/60 use my land to access there back yard, and leave there bins on my property during collection days, and beyond. Iv also had them park there car and drive across my land, including having delivery guys
walk straight past my kitchen window to deliver to their back door etc. I must point out that there is a perfectly good access from the front of all 3 houses by foot and by car, via an alternative public road, they are not in any way land locked, they seem to just like to use my land to access their back door
as its more convinent for them, and they believe this is their right to do this.

Recently iv been experiencing quite a lot of tension from them, as their use of my land has become really excessive. One neighbour has become incredible abusive towards me and uses very threatening and aggressive language, and he refuses to sit down and talk like a sensible adults.

As the situation escalated, I did loads of research on easement, analysed mine and all four house deeds, and the quite a lot of digging around the recent history of the property.
Heres what I found out;

There is no easement on my deeds relating to houses 56/58/60
There is one easement for house 52 to make use of the old coal house that was once located on my property, but as this no longer exists ( destroyed by previous owner ) this use becomes extinguished. They do not need to walk across my property to access their front door as they face the main public road and have no back door.

Having looked into the history, it appear that house 52/56/58/60 were owned collective by Company S, and that the back yards were an unadopdted road that lead to a site area that company S was situated on. While 54 was in private hands, it looks like my house at 54 may have been owned by one of the directors, and there was an easement at that time that allowed Company S, to pass and repass across the road, 54/56/58/60. In the 1970 company S was liquidated and sold off, this is when the landlord Mr F, purchased property 52 /56 /58/60/ including the land company S was located on before it was demolished. A couple of years later Mr F sold off the large area of land once owned by the Company S and a retaining wall was built to block of the access the old unadopted road would have given to the land of company S. A new road public highway was build via an alternative route by the purchaser of this land from Mr F, and a housing estate was developed. The new road allowed access by car to house 56/58/60 via the front door, while 52 remained as an end house facing the original public highway.

Having looked at the deeds of 56/58/60 There is basically one line that Staes there is a right of way over 54 ? THIS IS NOT ON MY DEEDS! the one line gives no reference to any document which my solicitor and I think is very fishy...
On the send line it states there is a right of way from 56 - 60 ( all three houses are owned by the the landlord Mr F ) This right goes on for around 2 pages, where everything from tractors to lorries wagons, and horse and cart, kitchen sink can cross..? ( THIS IS ALSO NOT ON MY DEEDS )

It appear to me that Mr F brought the land that company S was located on, in the hope he might be able to develop this on the cheap by using the unadopted road of 54/56/58/60, but couldn't get access rights over 54 as it was in private hands, that right to pass and repass was own by company S which was then liquidated. perhaps this is why he sold it off a couple of years later, and the unadopted road was blocked off. However, he still wonted to use the road as an access for his houses, 56/58/60 and so wrote some legal bobbins on his own deeds. its appears the easement over his own land to me appears to be nothing more than a bit of legal fiction. I mean he has wrote an easement over his own land to make it look like there is a right of way going all the way along and across my property. Also Mr F has died recently and the houses have passed on to his son Mr J.

Iv had my deeds looked at by a solicitor who has conformed there is no easement on my deeds for house 56/58/60 and they are effectively trespassing. He says that the only easement is relating to house 52 but as the coal house no longer exists, that there is a strong argument that I can have this removed from my deeds.
My solicitor has states that the only easement they could have is by prescription, but that its up to them to prove this, as far as I'm aware the tenants presently in house 56/58/60 have not lived there 20 years.

Basically, my question is can I build a wall around my property? And what can the landlord do, if anything to stop me? IM AN NHS worker I cant possible afford a hefty legal battle, or solicitor fees.

hope this makes better sense, sorry guys any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
mr sheen
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Re: Neighbours using my garden yard but no easement on my deeds?

Post by mr sheen »

« Old stone terrace » ie the terrace has been in existence for a long time enabling rights to develop over time.
Old terraced cottages usually have Gained rights of way via prescription across the back gardens. Many shared communal toilets/wash houses outside accessed across the gardens.
Historically coal etc had to be delivered to the rear gardens to avoid going through the houses. This went on for years and created easements over neighbouring land to access the rear of all houses in the terrace.
If your property dates before the 50s then it is highly likely that all terraces have gained rights of way via prescription and this is easily proven where there were coal bunkers as in your case. There really isn’t ‘excessive‘ use in these cases, since the terrace was a community of mutually supportive people going back and fore to the houses.

This is nothing to do with the length of time the current residents have lived there, it is a historical. I believe a historical terrace with evidence of coal deliveries, will be accepted, on the balance of probabilities, as having gained rights via prescription (especially if there is evidence of coal deliveries/storage) and you would have to prove no rights have been gained....cue very expensive legal dispute that lines your solicitor’s pockets with gold.

If you obstruct the right of way, the users could just remove the obstruction. If the land owner has deep pockets he will not tolerate interference with his rights since this devalues his properties.

NB just seen your other posting that adds complications which could influence/complicate the above .....cue even more money heading to solicitors if you want to pursue this.
Petra77
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Re: Easements - right of way

Post by Petra77 »

Hi Again,

I just wonted to add, that I had a lot of trouble logging back in, ( reason for my delay in answering you ) and I had to create a new login name.

Iv since done a lot more research and taken legal advice, hence I hope this come across with a lot more clarity.

According to my solicitor there are no easements on my deeds for the houses 56 / 58/ 60

There dose appear to have been an easement across my garden yard, which was an old unadopted road in the 1960 and 1970s, which was owned by Company S. As Company S was liquidated in 1973, a retaining wall build to block the unadopted road that lead to company S, new alternative road build to access this land, I believe this was enough to extinguish the easement. The fact that the new developers build a new alternative road, might give rise to the fact they couldn't legally use the unadopted road that crossed my property to access this land for the new housing estate.

TIME LINE 1960 - Present ( what I know so far )

Company S owned house 52/56/58/60 in 1960s - 1970s but my house 54 was in private hands.
Mr F brought houses 52/56/58/60 and the land company S was located on in 1973
Mr F sold land company S was located on around 1976 but kept house 52/56/58/60
New Purchases of the land company S was located on was developed into a housing estate, the unadopted road was blocked off by a retaining wall, a new road was build giving a new access route for the new housing estate, which also gave house 56/58/60 access by car.
Mr F sold house 52 into private hands, the buyers appear to have been a relative, this happened in the early 80tys
cleo5
Posts: 452
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: Easements - right of way

Post by cleo5 »

Petra77,
I understood your first post but a diagram makes things easier.

Can you possibly do a rough drawing of yours and other houses and take a photo of your drawiing and attach it to your next post.
Then we will have a clearer idea of how the land is .

Surely if there is no mention of a right of way over your land then it cannot be there.
Mention of any extinguisment of a Row would be there too.

Is there no ROw on your land registry title plan which marks the extent of your land.?

It might be that because they or previous owners have been using it over so many years that they think they have prescriptive rights.
Have you told them that they cannot use it.?


You could put a chain link fence around your land thereby excuding them all with gated access for yourself.
It will then be up to them to prove their rights..

How long have you lived there?
Yoursolicitor will advise you what you can do but it may be costly.
Petra77
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Re: Easements - right of way

Post by Petra77 »

This is what is written on the deeds on 56/58/60

The land has the benefit of a right of way over the yard on the north
side of 54 Waterton Lane with or without animals and vehicles.

The transferees will reserve unto the transferor and his successors in
title namely the owner or owners or occupiers for the time being of the
adjoining property known as 60 Waterton Lane, Mossley with workmen and
others authorised by them a right of way over and along the strip of
land coloured yellow on the plan attached hereto for the purpose of
cleaning windows and inspecting and repairing the gables and garden
wall of the said property 60 Waterton Lane, Mossley the transferor
owner or owners thereof doing as little damage as possible and
forthwith making good any damage caused to the reasonable satisfaction
of the Transferees or other the owner or owners for the time being of
the property hereby transferred and the said strip of land must be left
clear and unobstructed at all times the land hereby transferred will be
sold with the right to the free and uninterrupted passage and running
of water soil gas and electricity from and to such piece or parcels of
land and buildings which for the time being are erected thereon or on
some part thereof through the sewers drains water courses cables pipes
wires which are now or which may be at any time be laid in or under or
passing through the land retained by the transferor with the right for
the transferees and their successors in title to enter the retained
land for the purposes of repairing cleaning renewing the sewers drains
water courses cables pipes and wires doing as little damage as possible
to the retained land and making good any damage occasioned in the
exercise of this right and except and reserved unto the transferor the
free and uninterrupted passage and running of water soil gas and
electricity from and to the retained land and the building which for
the time being are erected thereon or some part thereof through the
sewers drains water courses pipe and wires which are now or which may
be at any time be laid in or under or passing through the land hereby
transferred with the right for the transferor and his successors in
title to enter upon such land for the purpose of repairing cleaning
maintaining or renewing the sewers drains water courses cables pipes
and wires doing as little damage as possible to the land hereby
transferred and making good any damage occasioned in the exercise of
these rights.
The transferees shall be responsible for the repair and maintenance of
all sewers drains water courses cables pipes wires in under or on the
land hereby transferred whether or not the same are used in common with
the retained land.

THIS IS NOT WRITTEN ON MY DEEDS ?
This is what on my deeds - Which my solicitor says are related to 52 use of the old coal house.

19.04.1999) The land is subject to the rights reserved by a Conveyance
of the land in this title dated 9 May 1969 made between (1) Williams
Deacon's Bank Limited and (2) John Lilley and Marilyn Joyce Lilley.
Petra77
Posts: 63
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Re: Easements - right of way

Post by Petra77 »

Ok I'm going to make a drawing for you, one minute
Petra77
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Re: Easements - right of way

Post by Petra77 »

I brought the property on 2007, I only lived in the property intermittently, and for the rest of the time I rented it out. 18 months ago I moved back in.
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