Enforcement Notice pending

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pilman
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Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by pilman » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:59 pm

I think, as ultimately, a live/work art studio is on my wish list.
There is no information about the size of the existing building, although a commercial building can now be converted into a dwellinghouse under permitted development rights.

I know I would have concentrated on that type of development before I thought about erecting a large grain silo in the Green Belt area that is part of an Article 4 order.

ukmicky
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Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by ukmicky » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:23 pm

As it’s classed as brownfield I think the OP should go speak to the planners and see if they would grant permission to use the plot for residential use rather than business.

Under the NPPF councils have be told to identify all brownfield sites and allow them to be used as residential and to grant planning permission in principle for those sites.If it falls outside the area of the councils local plan they don’t have allow such a development but many councils still follow the NPPF framework.

Failing that I would gain the business use offered, as it has more potential uses and higher value than agricultural.


As Pilman has said the use of the land should have been dealt with first as the silo is now complicating things.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

Problems
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 8:34 am

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Problems » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:00 pm

pilman wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:59 pm
I think, as ultimately, a live/work art studio is on my wish list.
There is no information about the size of the existing building, although a commercial building can now be converted into a dwellinghouse under permitted development rights.

I know I would have concentrated on that type of development before I thought about erecting a large grain silo in the Green Belt area that is part of an Article 4 order.
Believe existing building was 12ft x 18ft

Dookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:56 am

Thank you all for the recent posts.

Yes, the original building is just under 12 x 18 feet. I have installed WC, etc., so not an awful lot of space left over.

Unfortunately, it seems I have complicated things by erecting the silo... and I knew about the permitted development attached to commercial buildings, but overlooked the article 4 directive. :(

The local council does not have enough brownfield land and most new develoments are being built on the green belt. I checked out the register of brownfield sites.
There are about 50, but most, like mine, are too small (under half a hectare) to support the minimum number of houses and none have been granted Permission in Principle.

Having said that, a local landowner, just a few hundred yards away, with a virtually identical situation as mine- a redundant storage shed on an acre of green belt- has just been granted permission to build a pair of semi detatched houses.
(He paid an undisclosed amount to 'mitigate the environmental impact of the develoment'... but I'd not have the means to do this). Dx

pilman
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Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by pilman » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:56 pm

He paid an undisclosed amount to 'mitigate the environmental impact of the development'... but I'd not have the means to do this
If you were able to obtain planning permission for two houses, that will mean that the plot can be sold to a builder with the consideration being the cost of building one of the houses for your occupation and ownership, with the builder having to pay the undisclosed amount to mitigate the environmental impact of the development on previously developed Brownfield land as the final cost of acquiring the single building plot which he can make a profit on.

I would imagine that such a proposal would appeal to quite a number of small developers seeking a single building plot as long as the house to be built for your occupation was a simple low cost structure that would require the same cost to build as a single plot would normally be sold for.

Dookie
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 am

Thanks, Pilman...

Yes...that's cetainly an opportunity I'd find very hard to turn down...

I've had several really terrible years from which I am slowly recovering ...at the moment I am enjoying the solitude and peace that this little plot has provided. ... I am a conservationist and desperate to create a sanctuary here, not just for myself, but for the creatures which struggle in these parts due to the very intensive methods of farming.

I have no need of material possessions, aside from my books, and despite there being very little space in the original building, it is perfectly habitable... but dare I ask permission for a live/work studio?

I will need to deal with the retrospective application for retention of the silo first, though, and if it is refused and I have to remove it, things will be difficult as there would not be any storage space for all the essential tools that are needed for tending the land, along with my craft tools which include bench saws, etc.

I'm very tempted when making the retrospective application to say that the silo is for agricultural purposes... if the storage of gardening tools for land management fits the bill, though...(?)

But I'd need to keep the brownfield status of the property if I am to have any hope of obtaining permission to use the original building as an artist's studio, as if the land reverts to agricultural use only, then I believe I'd most likely be well & truly scuppered...

It needs a lot of thought and I can only take one day at a time...I'm a fish out of water and in Limbo, at the moment.

I have a brief breathing space, thankfully, and although I can't afford to pay for a consultant at the moment, I'm sure I could have a look on the planning portal and take various bits from the previous application which resulted in the permission being granted for B1 business use. A lot of the work has already been done, such as flood assessment, etc.

Many thanks again for your input which is so appreciated, especially at this time of year where everyone is so busy...

Looking forward to the new year and seeing what it brings... :) Dx

cleo5
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Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by cleo5 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:04 pm

Dookie,
Do not worry. Things have a way of working out .
If you want to live on your piece of land in peace then I guess you do not want to have close neighbours but if you were to sell one bit of it you could then have funds to deal with planning issues and maybe build on to your existing building.
Happy New Year.

pilman
Posts: 3021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:08 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by pilman » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:53 am

When I receive a Personal Message I usually respond by offering to provide assistance, as I did for this posting.

The fact that my offer seems not to be required makes me wonder why send a PM in the first place?

Dookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:07 pm

Dear Pilman... I'm sorry if I missed your PM... I have not seen it. :? I wasn't sure if you received my message as I'm not sure how the site works. Apologies... I will go and see if I can find it.... I hope your offer still stands. Regards, Dx

Dookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:09 pm

cleo5 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:04 pm
Dookie,
Do not worry. Things have a way of working out .
If you want to live on your piece of land in peace then I guess you do not want to have close neighbours but if you were to sell one bit of it you could then have funds to deal with planning issues and maybe build on to your existing building.
Happy New Year.
You, too, Cleo...and thank you for your kind words... :) Dx

cleo5
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by cleo5 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:35 pm

Dookie,
To read a private message go to the top of his page an at the top on the right you find private messges. There will be a lightt on it if here is one fo you.
Clickonitandit will show who has messaged you and show you where/ how to reply.

Dookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:26 am

cleo5 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Dookie,
To read a private message go to the top of his page an at the top on the right you find private messges. There will be a lightt on it if here is one fo you.
Clickonitandit will show who has messaged you and show you where/ how to reply.
Thanks... it's all a bit Trial & Error... sometimes it's my fault and often it's my very out of date computer, which sometimes gives me an older version of stuff...so things suddenly appear out of nowhere, as it did when I made another search... if there was a box to tick so that any messages went straight to email....that would be even better (idiot proof!).
I did find the message eventually, though, thankfully! :) Dx

Dookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:37 pm

pilman wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:59 pm
I think, as ultimately, a live/work art studio is on my wish list.
There is no information about the size of the existing building, although a commercial building can now be converted into a dwellinghouse under permitted development rights.

I know I would have concentrated on that type of development before I thought about erecting a large grain silo in the Green Belt area that is part of an Article 4 order.
UPDATE:

It was such a relief to learn that there is NO article 4 direction in place after all...Thank you, Mr P! :D

I think I was confused by them saying (as a condition of the B1 use being granted) that permitted development rights were to be removed... I automatically assumed it meant that an art 4. was to be implemented.

I wish I'd known this before I put up the silo... it would have been much better in every way to have extended the pump house by 50%.

So... there WILL definitely be an enforcement notice for the silo... but no point making the retrospective planning application because it is extremely unlikely that permission will be granted.

What I'm still not really clear about, and I may be confused again, (quelle surprise), but I saw something a while ago saying that if a planning application does not precede an enforcement notice, then you have to pay double the usual planning application fee when you appeal... but that an appeal is free if you've already make a planning application up front.

Does this sound right? If not, what might I need to pay to appeal against the enforcement?

I also seem to remember (from somewhere or other) that in some cases, the planning dept can even refuse to allow an appeal where there has been no application prior to the enforcement notice.

Planning law is very complicated...I'm trying my best to understand...but I'm hoping that you might be able to comment on those two points, please... :?:

Regards, Dx

cleo5
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by cleo5 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:10 pm

Can 't you ask the council what type of addition to your pesent building would be approved? No good applying for permissions that are gooing to be reefused.
Then sell your silo( buyer to demolish and remove) and use the money for planning fees ?
Or could you shorten the silo? Then plant trees around it.?
Presumably it is built up piece by piece.

Dookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Enforcement Notice pending

Post by Dookie » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:18 am

Thanks Cleo.

The silo is already shorter than standard... I left a 'ring' off so that it's 4m instead of 5m. I intend to grown native plants to make it less visible, but they will take a few years to establish. There are 2 silos within a few hundred metres of my plot... standard size ..used for storage.

I mean... there's nothing odd or inconcruous about having a silo here... it sits very well in its agricultural setting... it doesn't need disguising in my opinion... but the rules say no building in the green belt, which I agree with, or it would start to look horrible if people were allowed to put stuff up all over the place.
I have broken planning rules and that's all it's about... but is just strange to discriminate where there are buildings exactly like mine just along the road, and on the green belt and they are deemed perfectly acceptable.

I think, even if I were allowed to put up a different kind of building to store my tools, etc., it would probably look really out of place compared to the silo.

If you didn't know otherwise, you'd think it had been there forever....

I guess if it has to come down, I would probably be allowed to tack a little shed onto the back of the pump house.... but it wouldn't allow a 360 degree viewing platform to watch the birds as I do now...and a 'hide' is a great asset on a nature reserve.

Dx

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