“Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

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Anon
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“Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by Anon » Sat May 16, 2020 3:11 pm

Hello posters, I hope you are all keeping okay.

My parents are having a problem with the extent of the highway outside their front garden.
From Victorian times, there was a house set in large grounds. Around 1980 this was demolished and four houses, each with a driveway facing the public highway were built. My parents bought the Northern-most one a couple of years later.

The driveways were planned with metalled visibility splays in the form of a single long “lay-by” set back into the plot, (with the new front garden walls behind this.) This gives the impression of the road being wider. The lay-by is “defined” as a lay-by by its ends. At the South end the garden wall of the old house still goes right to the edge of the original road. At the North end, the section running to the original road edge was rebuilt, when my parents’ front garden wall was built, and the two are “toothed” together.

Adjacent to my parents’ front garden to the North is a driveway to an old house set back from the road. This property is owned by a developer trying to replace one house with two and they are required to create/increase visibility to the South. Their solution is to knock down the “chunk” of my parents’ garden wall that forms the North end of the layby! My parents don’t want this and under Ad Medium Filum own the full width of their land to the original centre of the road.

The County Council have supplied the developer with a Highways Record map dated last year which, disappointingly, shows the lay-by and the area occupied by my parents’ “protruding” wall coloured as part of the highway. Although this map is labelled as recent, and shows the lay-by, it doesn’t show an outline of the stub of wall at all.

How can my parents prove ownership of the stub, and that the simplified features and outline of the highway, on the map, do not mean that it is part of the highway?

Thanks for your responses. Anon.

arborlad
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Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by arborlad » Sat May 16, 2020 6:04 pm

Anon wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:11 pm

The County Council have supplied the developer with a Highways Record map dated last year which, disappointingly, shows the lay-by and the area occupied by my parents’ “protruding” wall coloured as part of the highway. Although this map is labelled as recent, and shows the lay-by, it doesn’t show an outline of the stub of wall at all.

How can my parents prove ownership of the stub, and that the simplified features and outline of the highway, on the map, do not mean that it is part of the highway?

Thanks for your responses. Anon.



Presumably the construction of the wall will match that of other walls further into your parents property.

There is a presumption that where you own land that abuts a highway, you own the boundary feature attached to that land.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Anon
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Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by Anon » Mon May 18, 2020 1:03 am

Hello Arborlad, thanks for your reply.

“Presumably the construction of the wall will match that of other walls further into your parents property.”

The stub of wall matches their front garden wall, (and the front garden walls of the other three properties built at the same time), however the four properties were built open plan at the front and fenced at the rear. My parents’ and the “mirror” house at the other end of the four reuse an original side garden wall.

“There is a presumption that where you own land that abuts a highway, you own the boundary feature attached to that land.”

Unfortunately the 1:1250 highways map shows a continuously straight front wall with highways colour coding right up to it. The stub juts out about three feet, but that seems to be too small to be on the map.

ukmicky
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Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by ukmicky » Mon May 18, 2020 1:08 am

Your council should have a process where you can challenge and if required amend an error in the highways map.

If the wall is old ,it may on its own provide all the Evidence you require
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

pilman
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Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by pilman » Tue May 19, 2020 9:03 pm

A developer may have entered into an agreement with the council as part of the planning application that the lay-by would become part of the adopted highway. There is alegal procedure for that to happen, so it would be worth approaching the highway authority to establish if such a legal agreement was entered into by the developer when he owned the land.

Years ago that is what I had to do when planning was granted for 4 large detached houses to replace a single house located on a large plot at the end of a narrow road that led out of the village towards the area of natural beauty beyond the built up area.

I was obliged to create a passing bay so that vehicles could pass each other once the new houses became occupied, so that there was a likelyhood of vehicles meeting each other on the narrow part of the road where it left the last house in the village.

Anon
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Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:07 am

Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by Anon » Fri May 22, 2020 3:12 pm

Thank-you for your post Pilman.

“A developer may have entered into an agreement with the council as part of the planning application that the lay-by would become part of the adopted highway.”

How would I go about tracing this? The District Council planning website on-line records don’t go back that far.

“There is a legal procedure for that to happen, so it would be worth approaching the highway authority to establish if such a legal agreement was entered into by the developer when he owned the land.”

Is there a particular approach to use?

“Years ago that is what I had to do when planning was granted for 4 large detached houses to replace a single house located on a large plot at the end of a narrow road that led out of the village towards the area of natural beauty beyond the built up area.

I was obliged to create a passing bay so that vehicles could pass each other once the new houses became occupied, so that there was a likely hood of vehicles meeting each other on the narrow part of the road where it left the last house in the village.”

The road in question was already wide enough for two vehicles to pass each other, so I think it may be purely a visibility splay.

Thanks again.

Of Ukmicky’s post…

Thank-you for your post Ukmicky.

“Your council should have a process where you can challenge and if required amend an error in the highways map.”

My father’s first approach to the council received a reply mentioning; “Ownership disputes including party walls, boundaries etc. are civil issues”. I think I need to suggest an approach directly querying the map.

“If the wall is old ,it may on its own provide all the Evidence you require”.

Although the garden wall is old, it gets a bit “vague” towards the road. While following the route it did on the O.S. 1886 it loses height and has soil between the stones. The end wall of the lay-by is in line with it though, and toothed into my parents’ front wall. Hmm, would a developer "read" the “vague” section in their favour?

Thanks again.

Anon.

arborlad
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Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by arborlad » Fri May 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Anon wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:12 pm
Hmm, would a developer "read" the “vague” section in their favour?

Thanks again.

Anon.


Obviously no wish to diminish the effect this is having on your parents, but that did raise a chuckle.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

ukmicky
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Re: “Lay-by” Boundary Ownership and Highways Map Accuracy.

Post by ukmicky » Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Can we see these maps . Delete street names etc
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

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