Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

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october2011
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by october2011 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:26 pm

Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I have joined as I need some advice on outbuildings. My garden is 11m long and 6m wide. The front of the garden is 3m from door to gate. from bay window to gate its 2m.
I want to build an outbuilding 6m long and 5m wide, with a small shower room inside, and if possible a kitchenette ( just a sink and few cupboards) no gas cookers.
The purpose of the outbuilding is for half gym half entertainment room with a TV. The reason for the shower room is to have a shower after a workout without having to go into the main house and its more convenient to use the loo in the outbuilding rather than having to go into the main house if watching a movie in there. the reason for the kitchentte is to be able to have tap water whilst working out and snacks in the outbuilding if holding a party. the outbuilding will not be used as additional accomodation as no one will be living in there.
my council have said its not possible to build an outbuilding 6m by 5m as it will be over 50% of the garden size and it cant contain shower room or kitchenette. I live in London.

Is there a way to gain permission? Any help much appreciated!

Thanks

october2011
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by october2011 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:09 pm

forgot to mention the kitchen extension will take up 3m, so remaining length left will be only 8m.
i have seen the mini-guides before and my project doesnt meet the requirements, hence want to know a way to gain permission.
thanks

october2011
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by october2011 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:11 am

I will look into contacting planning consultants.
Yes almost all of the garden will be covered, with 2m remaining.
thanks for your help.

Mojisola
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:18 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by Mojisola » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:41 am

october2011 wrote:I will look into contacting planning consultants.
Yes almost all of the garden will be covered, with 2m remaining.
You'll be wasting your money - there's no way you could get permission to do all that.

Fitting plumbing into the garden building would set planning alarms bells ringing - there would be a great suspicion that you were going to have someone living out there.

andrew54
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:25 pm
Location: north yorkshire

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by andrew54 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:51 pm

october, you can spend money on consultants if you want, but if the development doesn't fit within permitted development then the usual next step is to submit a planning application. You can do this yourself, though there is a fee. Draw plans yourself, fill in the form, pay the fee, and see if you get permission. If it is refused there is no cost when you appeal. If you dopn't feel capable of doing this then use a planning consultant to do it for you.

If you get permission for this large outbuilding for use connected with the main house - with no mention of water or a kitchen - then no additional planning permission is needed afterwards to install the kitchen.

october2011
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by october2011 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:24 am

Thanks andrew.
the outbuilding is within 50% of unbuilt curtilage. It wont be self contained as there will be no gas supply just plumbing.

october2011
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by october2011 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:27 am

Is it easier to get a certificate of lawfulness or apply for planning permission?

andrew54
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:25 pm
Location: north yorkshire

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by andrew54 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:59 am

october2011 wrote:Is it easier to get a certificate of lawfulness or apply for planning permission?
It depends what you mean by 'easier'. A simpler process? Or a better chance of success. Only apply for planning permission if it doesn't come under permitted development.

arsie
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by arsie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:55 am

You first said
october2011 wrote:my council have said its not possible to build an outbuilding 6m by 5m as it will be over 50% of the garden size and it cant contain shower room or kitchenette.
Then later (having presumably checked or made changes) you said
october2011 wrote:the outbuilding is within 50% of unbuilt curtilage. It wont be self contained as there will be no gas supply just plumbing.
If you would be going against the council's warning - and, as others on here (Mojisola, andrew54) have said - by showing plumbing I think you should not be surprised if they refuse permission.

There is nothing to stop you adding plumbing later and no permission is needed. A neighbour of mine has done that. You will need drains for the original build (rain water) just make sure these are big enough and go into the main foul water system not to soak-aways. Mucky water from the kitchen sink or shower shouldn't go into the ground and even if you don't someone might later add a toilet -which certainly shouldn't :shock:

Mojisola
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:18 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by Mojisola » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:17 am

october2011 wrote:.
the outbuilding is within 50% of unbuilt curtilage. It wont be self contained as there will be no gas supply just plumbing.
If it's got plumbing and electricity, it's self-contained. There's plenty of homes that don't have a gas supply.

andrew54
Posts: 6994
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:25 pm
Location: north yorkshire

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by andrew54 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:56 pm

arsie wrote:You will need drains for the original build (rain water) just make sure these are big enough and go into the main foul water system not to soak-aways.
Wrong. In many areas the rain water MUST NOT go into the foul water system. Too much water would overload the sewage works.

All streets built in the last fifty years have two main drainage systems. Foul water, going to the sewage works. And surface water drains for rainwater going straight to the river.

arsie
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by arsie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:25 pm

Sorry Andrew I didn't realise that. Our cottage extension and new garage in 2007 here in a rural Norfolk village were both into the main foul drain. Anglian Water give a slight discount if rain water goes to soak-aways, as in the cottage next door. If rain and foul water must be kept apart the OP needs to plan accordingly.

Do you recommend he doesn't mention plumbing in his planning application?

october2011
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by october2011 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:03 pm

a planning consultant recommended to reduce the size of the outbuilding to be within the 50% of unbuilt curtilage, so i have. He also mentioned to apply for a certificate of lawfulness as its 'easier' and simpler. He also said as its under permitted development I can build the outbuilding then add plumbing later, which wont require planning permission.

kittycat
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Outbuilding over 50% garden size-help!

Post by kittycat » Thu May 01, 2014 12:02 pm

Hi there,
There is a free download on the planning page of The Classic Barn Company's website for a guide to permitted development, you should find this rather useful.
Hope you find this as helpful as I did. :)

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