Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

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jonahinoz
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by jonahinoz » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:41 pm

we have no idea if the circuit supplies just the STP or other external power at our property

Hi,

We spent two years in the 1960s on Penang Island (and she still says I never take her anywhere) when the RAF poted me to RAAF Butterworth. One of my RAF mates felt his electricity bill was rather high.

Investigation revealed that a nearby village (a collection of huts made from local vegitation) was wired through his meter.

Something to keep in mind.

Your neighbour can scarcely switch off electicity to the STP, if his waste goes into it too. But if things start to get tense, who owns the STP? Can your neighbour disconnect your pipes, and move the STP to somewhere out of your reach?

John W

alpacaman
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by alpacaman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:06 pm

jonahinoz wrote:we have no idea if the circuit supplies just the STP or other external power at our property

Hi,

We spent two years in the 1960s on Penang Island (and she still says I never take her anywhere) when the RAF poted me to RAAF Butterworth. One of my RAF mates felt his electricity bill was rather high.

Investigation revealed that a nearby village (a collection of huts made from local vegitation) was wired through his meter.

Something to keep in mind.

Your neighbour can scarcely switch off electicity to the STP, if his waste goes into it too. But if things start to get tense, who owns the STP? Can your neighbour disconnect your pipes, and move the STP to somewhere out of your reach?

John W
Quite. The neighbour is not proposing to switch off electricity to the STP, but to move it from our supply to his.

jonahinoz
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by jonahinoz » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 am

threatening to disconnect it anyway, connect the STP up to their house supply, and leave our underground cable live in the ground, saying that as the STP is on their land the ownership and responsibility is theirs.

Hi Alpacaman.

That will leave live cables on his property, but connected to your meter. How will you know that he isn't running something off them.

How many of our readers have found a pair of semi-Ds with a 13A socket in one house running off next door's meter? I have. I have also taken the front of one of my double 13A sockets, to reveal the corresponding double 13A in the adjoining house. No, they were not linked, but a couple of crocodile clips ..... :twisted: Or, if we had a falling out, it would have been quite easy to trip his meter on a regular basis.

John W

alpacaman
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by alpacaman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:49 am

jonahinoz wrote: threatening to disconnect it anyway, connect the STP up to their house supply, and leave our underground cable live in the ground, saying that as the STP is on their land the ownership and responsibility is theirs.

Hi Alpacaman.

That will leave live cables on his property, but connected to your meter. How will you know that he isn't running something off them.

How many of our readers have found a pair of semi-Ds with a 13A socket in one house running off next door's meter? I have. I have also taken the front of one of my double 13A sockets, to reveal the corresponding double 13A in the adjoining house. No, they were not linked, but a couple of crocodile clips ..... :twisted: Or, if we had a falling out, it would have been quite easy to trip his meter on a regular basis.

John W
In this situation, he might argue that we could just flick the circuit fuse and it would no longer be live. I guess I'm more interested in whether he has any grounds whatsoever to a) disconnect a live cable belonging to us and either terminate it or leave it lying in the ground, and/or b) change the current arrangement without the express permission of the other parties.

jdfi
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by jdfi » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:11 pm

has a post been deleted?

alpacaman
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by alpacaman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:17 pm

jdfi wrote:has a post been deleted?
Looks like my original post has gone. I think someone was trying to be helpful by moving it to a thread I started 18 months ago, but it just seems to have creating more confusion. Here's the original post that started this thread:

Our property shares a sewage treatment plant (STP) with two others. It has a slightly complex history which means that when the land it is situated on was transferred to one of the neighbours (who agreed to arrange maintenance, desludging, etc. on behalf of all three properties, with us and a third neighbour paying a third of the costs), no one realised (until we moved in) that our property still provides the electricity for the pumps. This is properly metered, so simply involves us calculating the electricity consumption and getting similar contributions at the same time as the desludging/maintenance.

This arrangement has been working fine since we moved in four years ago, but the neighbour who organises the maintenance, etc. now wants to take over the electricity supply as well. They have not provided a reason for this, apart from it making things more convenient for them. However, they have recently moved away and rented their property out (and, as far as we know, are in the process of selling it to the tenants).

This will involve them disconnecting our supply and, after finding their electrician wandering round on our property, they have asked if we would object to this. We have said that we see no reason to change an arrangement that 2 out of the 3 properties are quite comfortable with, especially as we have no idea if the circuit supplies just the STP or other external power at our property and we doubt they would be willing to be liable for any unforeseen issues that might arise in the future.

They are clearly not happy with this, and are now threatening to disconnect it anyway, connect the STP up to their house supply, and leave our underground cable live in the ground, saying that as the STP is on their land the ownership and responsibility is theirs. I very much doubt that any electrician would be willing or able to do this, and have told them as much, but it is concerning nonetheless.

As yet, they have been unable to provide any convincing reasons as to why they feel this is necessary. I had assume it might be something to do with their house sale, so have said on multiple occasions that if their solicitor has spotted an issue in terms of deeds, easements, etc. then they should have them write to me, which hasn't happened.

Any advice, oh wise ones? Can they actually change anything without our permission, and are we right to withhold it if we wish?

Thanks in advance.

jdfi
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by jdfi » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:16 pm

If anything I would be suggesting a separately-metered supply, or at least a sub meter.

From your point of view, I see nothing wrong with letting him power it. One less hassle for you?

alpacaman
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by alpacaman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:23 am

jdfi wrote:If anything I would be suggesting a separately-metered supply, or at least a sub meter.

From your point of view, I see nothing wrong with letting him power it. One less hassle for you?
Thanks. There already is a sub meter. The point is that I don’t want the hassle of the supply being moved, especially as they are selling. So the question is still can they move the supply from us to them without our permission?

jdfi
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by jdfi » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:11 am

alpacaman wrote:
jdfi wrote:If anything I would be suggesting a separately-metered supply, or at least a sub meter.

From your point of view, I see nothing wrong with letting him power it. One less hassle for you?
Thanks. There already is a sub meter. The point is that I don’t want the hassle of the supply being moved, especially as they are selling. So the question is still can they move the supply from us to them without our permission?
This is probably a sit down with a solicitor question, but my own two penneth is that they probably can.

There is a factor on your side, though. Any major electrical work has to be NICEIC certified.

You must insist that they pay for a suitable contractor to install the new supply and also properly remove your old supply, and issue certificates to both properties.

Collaborate
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by Collaborate » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:15 am

jdfi wrote:
alpacaman wrote:
jdfi wrote:If anything I would be suggesting a separately-metered supply, or at least a sub meter.

From your point of view, I see nothing wrong with letting him power it. One less hassle for you?
Thanks. There already is a sub meter. The point is that I don’t want the hassle of the supply being moved, especially as they are selling. So the question is still can they move the supply from us to them without our permission?
This is probably a sit down with a solicitor question, but my own two penneth is that they probably can.

There is a factor on your side, though. Any major electrical work has to be NICEIC certified.

You must insist that they pay for a suitable contractor to install the new supply and also properly remove your old supply, and issue certificates to both properties.
I would also make it clear that they should bear the entire cost of the switch themselves.

arborlad
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by arborlad » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:44 pm

jdfi wrote:has a post been deleted?


All the background and history here: https://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=20558
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

alpacaman
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by alpacaman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:56 pm

jdfi wrote:
alpacaman wrote:
jdfi wrote:If anything I would be suggesting a separately-metered supply, or at least a sub meter.

From your point of view, I see nothing wrong with letting him power it. One less hassle for you?
Thanks. There already is a sub meter. The point is that I don’t want the hassle of the supply being moved, especially as they are selling. So the question is still can they move the supply from us to them without our permission?
This is probably a sit down with a solicitor question, but my own two penneth is that they probably can.

There is a factor on your side, though. Any major electrical work has to be NICEIC certified.

You must insist that they pay for a suitable contractor to install the new supply and also properly remove your old supply, and issue certificates to both properties.
Thanks. I’ll speak to a solicitor in that case. I actually don’t want anything changing, nor does the other neighbour. I simply wanted to know whether or not one party could change the current arrangements unilaterally. Obviously any electrician would need access to our property before they could disconnect the existing supply, but unless anyone can advise differently I see nothing that would force us to provide such access and therefore allow the change to take place.

Hugh Jaleak
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by Hugh Jaleak » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:00 pm

Does beg the question, Why are you so against the alteration of the supply?

Personally, I'd be glad to be rid, if you later propose your own system, you have no obligation towards the existing system then either. You are aware of the current electricity consumption, this is not going to change, so no chance the neighbour could sting you for additional costs, and as long as the neighbour who proposes the alterations gets the necessary works done by a registered Electrician, with certificates as required, and covers costs of making the existing supply arrangements safe, then I fail to see a problem.

alpacaman
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Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by alpacaman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:07 pm

Hugh Jaleak wrote:Does beg the question, Why are you so against the alteration of the supply?

Personally, I'd be glad to be rid, if you later propose your own system, you have no obligation towards the existing system then either. You are aware of the current electricity consumption, this is not going to change, so no chance the neighbour could sting you for additional costs, and as long as the neighbour who proposes the alterations gets the necessary works done by a registered Electrician, with certificates as required, and covers costs of making the existing supply arrangements safe, then I fail to see a problem.
Unfortunately the neighbour has shown time after time that they are pretty incapable of doing anything properly. It’s taken myself and our neighbours three years to convince them that a) its a STP not a septic tank and b) that it doesn’t need emptying every three months (which we have had to contribute to). I therefore have no faith whatsoever that it will be done properly, that it won’t cause further problems (we have no idea if the circuit supplies just the STP), or that we won’t end up paying the most expensive tariff (and probably get charged part of their standing charge).

Hugh Jaleak
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Location: Northamptonshire

Re: Shared Sewage Treatment Plant

Post by Hugh Jaleak » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm

Fair comment. I suppose I should ask why they are so determined to get the supply moved to their property, but I suspect there may not be any rational answer to that, so I'll leave you to enjoy your weekend!

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