Summer House Confusion

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Truffle75
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Summer House Confusion

Post by Truffle75 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:44 am

I hope I am writing this in the correct place and that someone out there can help me.
I've just moved into a new build property. I'm a housing association tenant and I don't have a lot of money. I have a lot of creative hobbies and not much room in my bungalow, but a very large garden, so I want to have a summer house built so I have an area that I can use and not end up taking over the living room with all my stuff.
My father in law is helping with the cost but i'm still very limited & don't want to cause him extra costs, it will be one of the cheap and cheerful types rather than the twenty odd grand "proper" summer house/studio type things.
My garden wraps around the back of my house in a U shape and I want to put the "studio" next to the left-hand side elevation. There is a public footpath that runs alongside the left hand fence on the outside of my property boundary. I have read through the technical guidance for Class E permitted development and it appears as if I don't have to have planning permission (sizes etc would all be adhered to) However I found some other info elsewhere on the internet that says that an out building cannot be built forward of a side elevation if that side elevation faces onto a public highway. Definitions of what constitutes a public highway differ over lots of different sites with some info saying a footpath doesn't apply in this instance but others saying that footpaths are public highways.
I've tried to clarify if I need to take this footpath into consideration with my county council but they refuse to give out any information at all & insist I fill out an enquiry form which will cost £50. It sounds stupid but every penny really counts for this project and I can't afford to pay £50 for a yes or no about a bloomin footpath. I've looked at the enquiry form and it only asks if any part of the proposed out building will be forward of the principal elevation, which it won't, there is no mention of side elevations.
I feel like I am being held to ransom due to deliberate obfuscation :cry: my housing association has given permission for the studio and i'm sorely tempted to just go ahead, get it ordered and built.
Can anyone clarify if I need to worry about this footpath or if I would be incredibly dumb to go ahead assuming the build is covered by Class E permitted development guidelines?

p.s so sorry for rambling on :oops:

mugwump
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by mugwump » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:07 am

As a tenant do you even have permitted development rights. You will need landlord permissions anyway

Truffle75
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by Truffle75 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:45 am

mugwump wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:07 am
As a tenant do you even have permitted development rights. You will need landlord permissions anyway
I have been given permission by the housing association if you read above. Yes, as it is an assured longterm tenancy I have the same rights to develop as a homeowner, as long as I have permission from the association.

Collaborate
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by Collaborate » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:08 pm

The principal elevation is any side that fronts a highway. A highway will include a public footpath.

MacadamB53
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by MacadamB53 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:33 pm

Hi Truffle75,

you’re trying to establish whether the proposed development has been granted planning permission by virtue of it qualifying as permitted development.

in order to do that you need to check against the relevant section of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development)(England) Order 2015.

from what you’ve described, that would be:

Part 1 Development within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse

and, within that Part:
Class E - buildings etc incidental to the enjoyment of a dwellinghouse

E.1(c) is the point that you’re asking about:

Development is not permitted by Class E if any part of the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation of the original dwellinghouse;

so, is the side of your bungalow it’s principal elevation?

that would depend on whether your “front” door is on that side of the house because that’s what “principal elevation” means.

contrary to what you’ve been told, it has little (nothing) to do with nearby highways, etc.

kind regards, Mac
Last edited by MacadamB53 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

SwitchRich
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by SwitchRich » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:42 pm

Very interesting detail there Mac! :)

Collaborate
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by Collaborate » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:58 pm

I take back what I posted earlier. Mac is right.

The guidance can be found here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _FINAL.pdf
“Principal elevation” – in most cases the principal elevation will be that part of the house
which fronts (directly or at an angle) the main highway serving the house (the main
highway will be the one that sets the postcode for the house concerned). It will usually
contain the main architectural features such as main bay windows or a porch serving the
main entrance to the house. Usually, but not exclusively, the principal elevation will be
what is understood to be the front of the house.
There will only be one principal elevation on a house. Where there are two elevations
which may have the character of a principal elevation, for example on a corner plot, a view
will need to be taken as to which of these forms the principal elevation.

Truffle75
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by Truffle75 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:07 pm

Thanks guys.
Yes the front of my property is the principle elevation (it has the front door & front windows etc) The side elevation is just brick. I'm not sure if it would be called a corner plot as there are houses that back on to that side of the property. The development is served by an unadopted road, this used to be the location of the original footpath across the manor grounds, it was relocated to run alongside the property boundary fence, down the unadopted road to join back up at the bottom.
Dare I just go for it?

MacadamB53
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by MacadamB53 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:41 pm

Hi Truffle75,

assuming your proposed summerhouse doesn’t breach another part of the order - e.g. doesn’t exceeds the height restriction - then it has been granted planning permission so you don’t need to dare, just crack on.

all development requires planning permission.

to save wasting everybody’s time and money the government issued an order that grants planning permission to a number of types of development.

your proposed development is one of those.

it’s not some shady, chancy, subjective thing.

crack on.

kind regards, Mac

Truffle75
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by Truffle75 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:10 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:41 pm
Hi Truffle75,

assuming your proposed summerhouse doesn’t breach another part of the order - e.g. doesn’t exceeds the height restriction - then it has been granted planning permission so you don’t need to dare, just crack on.

all development requires planning permission.

to save wasting everybody’s time and money the government issued an order that grants planning permission to a number of types of development.

your proposed development is one of those.

it’s not some shady, chancy, subjective thing.

crack on.

kind regards, Mac
Thank you so much Mac! I'm such a worrier & I suppose because it is something I have wanted so much for so long, I feel like I must be doing something wrong because I don't deserve it. Totally dumb but there you go lol
Going to call my guy right now! Excited! :D
X

pilman
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Re: Summer House Confusion

Post by pilman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:20 pm

Having just seen this posting it was great to see the word "Excited" followed by a smiley face because the Poster had received the correct information that established that the out-building is granted planning permission by Part 1 Class E of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015.

What may have been referred to about the public footpath concerns Part 1 Class A which is an alteration to the house itself.

That can bee seen as Clause A1(e) transcribed below.
PART 1
Development within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse

Class A – enlargement, improvement or other alteration of a dwellinghouse

Permitted Development
A. The enlargement, improvement or other alteration of a dwellinghouse.

Development not permitted
A.1 Development is not permitted by Class A if—
(e) the enlarged part of the dwellinghouse would extend beyond a wall which—
(i) forms the principal elevation of the original dwellinghouse; or
(ii) fronts a highway and forms a side elevation of the original dwellinghouse;
I am only posting this to assure other people who may have read this thread that an outbuilding built alongside or behind a wall that is the principle elevation of the house is permitted development unless the property is in article 2(3) land which is defined in the GPDO.
Article 2(3) land
1. Land within—
(a) an area designated as a conservation area under section 69 of the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 (designation of conservation areas);
(b) an area of outstanding natural beauty;
(c) an area specified by the Secretary of State for the purposes of section 41(3) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (enhancement and protection of the natural beauty and amenity of the countryside);
(d) the Broads;
(e) a National Park; and
(f) a World Heritage Site.
That is when a building cannot be erected next to a side wall that faces the boundary.
E.3 In the case of any land within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse which is article 2(3) land, development is not permitted by Class E if any part of the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated on land between a wall forming a side elevation of the dwellinghouse and the boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
Nowhere in Part 1 Class E is there any reference to a highway that would prevent an outbuilding from being erected, but when the GPDO was first issued in 1995 there was such a provision.
(b)any part of the building or enclosure to be constructed or provided would be nearer to any highway which bounds the curtilage than—
(i)the part of the original dwellinghouse nearest to that highway, or
(ii)any point 20 metres from that highway,
whichever is nearer to the highway;
That restriction was removed when the GPDO was amended in 2008 to use the wording as quoted above, which remains in the 2015 amended version of the GPDO.
Reading a post on the internet that may have been referring to the clause in the original GPDO may have resulted in the comment made earlier in this posting, which is why I wanted to make sure that anyone considering what Truffle was considering is not ruffled by what was posted earlier when the word "highway" was incorrectly used.

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