Claim Unregistered Land

DIYBath
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by DIYBath » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:06 am

Thanks for your time everyone.

I think I have it now.

Essentially I am OK to build the gate.

And...

The land in front of the neighbours drive is likely adopted. I am not trying to be a NFH I could rant about the neighbour's activities that have brought me to this but I won't bother you with that. I just want him to stop pestering me.

arborlad
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by arborlad » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:12 am

ukmicky wrote: arborlad

You pointing out to people that they shouldn't create more than one thread holds true here because number 5 above would have been noticed a lot sooner if it was one single thread.


See this thread: http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewt ... 04#p204604
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

ukmicky
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by ukmicky » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:41 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi ukmicky,

Mac ,not quite correct because a prima facie case will still need to be shown , showing why the presumption should stand.

proof of ownership of the OP’s property would be suffice.


kind regards, Mac
There are 2 forms of legal presumptions,conclusive and rebuttable . If this were a conclusive presumption, proof of ownership of the OP’s property would be suffice as you say as the presumption is regarded as fact . This is however a rebuttable presumption which provides you with a starting point for your case and a place to return to if no evidence can be found that casts doubt on the presumption , It is not your whole case. . As its not a conclusive presumption and it is not considered as fact from the outset anyone wishing to use the presumption would need to investigate the history of their property and the land they are after and show that based on the balance of probabilities there is no unregistered owner out there who could rebut the presumption . In this case the OP couldn't do that as the ROW and adoption history would have provided evidence rebutting the presumption.

Imagine the scenario below and the potential damages claim against the land registry if the above was not the case.

Let say the highways department decided that they no longer required this road to be highway ,because that is the only time there would be a need to use the legal presumption. . The OP then asked the land registry to correct the register and place this bit of land within his red boundary line as its now potentially become a valuable asset . Now based on what your saying simply owning the OPs property should be enough for that to happen . A legal problem then arises if this land was actually owned by someone else who could prove he owned it ,but due to it being unregistered he has now lost title to it because he didn't know the OP had put in a claim for it ,even though legally the OP had no legal right to it and legally the land registry had no right to place it on the OPs title .
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

Collaborate
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by Collaborate » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:16 am

All factual presumptions are rebuttable. They serve to shift the burden of proof.

Conclusive presumptions usually refer to legal principles, eg the presumption that a child under 10 cannot be criminally liable for their actions.

jonahinoz
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by jonahinoz » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:00 am

Hi DIY,

Have you been cutting corners, crossing this land as a short cut to get on/off the road? If so, I wonder if you could have acquired a prescriptive easement benefitting your house? That might prevent anybody from building on the land.

I think you (or your predecessor)(or visitors?) will need to have crossed the land once every year, for the "best part of a good while" (20 years?)

Asking, coz I don't know.

John W

arborlad
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by arborlad » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:02 pm

DIYBath wrote:Upon installation of the gate and when I dig up the tarmac I can see clear evidence of a wall and footings on the line of the original boundary..


When did this happen?..............you're becoming a real pain with your multiple threads :roll:
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

DIYBath
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by DIYBath » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Sorry Aroborlad,

Was having trouble finding old post fro my admin area.

It happened a couple of weeks ago have not completely exposed the wall, as I haven't laid the line of bricks yet not in this weather.

DIYBath
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Post by DIYBath » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:17 pm

Just in case people haven't seen my other post...
Our solicitor kindly tried to help us register the land as it was featured in our original conveyance map. This failed, see a partially redacted response form land Registry below.

######################

I have reviewed the file for this title.

When the application was made for first registration in 1992 the land, the subject of your enquiry was considered.

Whilst the land did form part of the plan to the Conveyance dated 17 January 1969 it did not appear, according to the Ordnance Survey Map at that time, to be in the occupation on the applicants. We questioned this with the solicitors who lodged the application, #Solisitors Name#. As a result of that enquiry the plan to the conveyance was deemed to be defective. We have, in the file, a further plan showing the extent to be registered, by red edging, that was signed by the applicants # Previous Owners Nmes#. The extent of the title plan agrees with that signed plan.

######################

I have talked to the previous owner and it seems to me (a layman) that the previous owner advised the Land Registry that a mistake had been made. Once this had been established he seems to have miscorrected the boundary line. Regrettably, there is little historical evidence, of gates etc. to prove a case for adverse possession using his testimony.

So we found ourselves stuck in a situation where we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. We have no way of knowing for sure where the boundary actually ends.

Our solicitor then advised us to take adverse possession of the land by installing a gate at the end of the drive abutting the Highways Land. He advised me that we didn't need to amend our original planning application which assumed due to my error that the land was on our registered title.

Upon installation of the gate and when I dig up the tarmac I can see clear evidence of a wall and footings on the line of the original boundary.

It seems crazy that we have this kind of evidence, but no way of correcting this mistake.

This obviously puts us at a disadvantage if we try to sell the house before we can officially make a claim for adverse possession in 12 years time.

Can I correct this error using the previous owner's testimony and/or with the boundary wall evidence?

In the meantime Planning Control has visited and asked us to amend our application for the gate as the work completed doesn't match the original. How should I amend my application, which certificate should I fill in? Our neighbour has verbally said that part of the land is his but I have SIMR that proves otherwise and he is big time trying it on (the land he's claiming is part of the gravel verge up our drive).

Thanks in advance for your help.

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