Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

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mylor
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:56 am

SJC14 wrote:If you can smell rotten eggs and it is strong near the sewer and you think that the sewer has leaked and you told SWW exactly this and have they checked?

Have you had a plumber come and investigate with a camera?

Ignore the source of the pipe and it being your neighbours waste pipe - that is irrelevant and not going to change.

Hi SJC14,

Thank you for your input.
Here's the thing, (really sorry but I can't seem to make any of this brief as it truly is complex and twisted.
I finally managed to get sww to come and cctv the offending sewer on Jan 8th 2018.

This has taken 11 months of me endlessley dealing with the blatant lies and inconsistencies delay, tactics from sww, who tried to tell me that they had cctv'd said sewer pipe in march 2017 and it was fine and actually the only (apparently) sewage undertaker who covers the whole of south west uk (really? I don't think they're that hard up tbh); said he was not coming back down again, end of, nothing wrong with it!

I couldn't believe my ears, I managed to get the name of this undertaker, upon checking my records no such man ever come to my property. Plus I had the name of the man that did come down & he did not CCTV the said sewer, even though I had expressly requested that they did above & beyond everything. Unbelievable, truly a very dangerous sad state of affairs.


CCTV of sewer pipe by sww
I had mentioned the following in emails to sww via the complaits departrment in advance of the cctv on jan 8th 2018, as I was very concerned, gut instinct, sixth sense, inuition for a very good reason as you will soon see:-

Hydrogen Sulphide Gas Detection – H2S Is A Toxic Gas Risk, Not Just A Bad Smell
The real danger with H2S is that it can kill at reasonable low levels.

..........Pipe damage detection is accomplished via the injection of smoke and fluorescent dyes [34], [25] or via remote inspection with cameras and sonar systems attached to tethered probes [34] or mobile robots [1].Flow monitoring is achieved with the installation of meters at strategic locations such that the drainage system can be properly controlled to prevent overflows [35]. Finally, once a flow problem has been detected and localized flushing or chemical treatments are used to attain sediment control.

Inhalation
The respiratory tract and the nervous system are the main targets for the acute toxicity of hydrogen sulphide.
Caution: Odour is unreliable as a means of detecting H2S
Side Effects of Sewer Gas Inhalation
Sewer gas forms when solid waste from humans and animals decomposes. The gas contains ammonia, methane and hydrogen sulfide, all of which are toxic when inhaled in high concentrations. People can die through asphyxiation when exposed to very high concentrations of sewer gas. More common effects include eye irritation, nausea and breathing difficulty.

Pipe damage detectionis accomplished via the injection of smoke and fluorescent dyes [34], [25] or via remote inspection with cameras and sonar systems attached to tethered probes [34] or mobile robots [1].Flow monitoring is achieved with the installation of meters at strategic locations such that the drainage system can be properly controlled to prevent overflows [35]. Finally, once a flow problem has been detected and localized flushing or chemical treatments are used to attain sediment control.

Whilst sww had cctv in sewer pipe, I was watching the monitor to see what what was what. It appears that at every one of the clay pipes section at the joint, it shows they are displaced, misaligned, I questioned why I could see the full face of the next pipe at one of the joins, and was brushed off as though I was an imbecile. I queried this and asked would this not allow hydrogen sulfide sewer gas to escape and more than likely liquid to. I was told, no.

I then noticed what looked like smokey vapours moving along the sewer and said, see, what's all that then?
Then I said, Ah haaa someone must be in next door now
With that the neighbour came storming out (I wrote to him in Nov 2017 all about this pipe he absolutely ignored it) ready to throw a right performance (he is a bully) and started screaming and shouting and said- I've already told you, it's not my problem, nothing to do with me. I asked him to stop shouting at me and said how impossible it has been to find out just who exactly was responsible.
So I had 3 people from sww and 2 people from enviromental protection, all stood on my front garden when this happened.
Anyway, sww customer relations bloke was talking to me when I noticed the cctv bloke was trying to sort something out, he had come to a halt. Oh, the cctv was being blocked by a deposit from pipe user and they where (can't believe this) really nicely and politely asking neighbour please , do you mind? can yuou please flush it again, thank you, sorry about that. OMG.
Now when they where all leaving sww cutomer chap turned to me and said this 'go and see your doctor'. Right, that is bang out of order! who the hell does he think he is? what a thing to say, my hearts nearly lept out of my rib cage just typing it here! Yep thanks for nothing sww. The worst part was enviro health just (probably through lack of true knowledge about sewers etc) where guided and influenced by sww's analysis and that was THERE IS NOTHING WRONG THE SEWER PIPE.

With regard to the odor, enviro had been up once before in the morning had a quick sniff about and concluded, no odor. I need to stress to them now that after 4pm ish and up to 11 ish is when it reaks 9 out of 10 evenings and it almost makes me throw up on average once a week from it's violent deadly odor.

So I can't even call on enviromental health and apparently they don't deal with residential properties when it comes to this sort of thing. I have asked them to then please tell me who does, they ignored it.

I was so upset and confused that I complained online to local council and LGO.
LGO told me off for not going through the correct procedure, then at the end of the email I read something that made feel like I was going to pass out.
If you do decided that you are going to pursue this complaint I have to tell you that you will probably not get any help from LGO as you fall outside the 12 month time period. Well do you know what? First that is wrong and after reading about LGO, they are 100% biased in this area, intrigued I needed to know more....Oh they are all ex council workers I discover, figures. I checked the name on my LGO email and sure as eggs is eggs , it was still working for the council!!!!!

My head is ready to explode, I can not afford legaL advice. Can't get legal aid. I have health issues and all this is making my health deteriorate badly. Every time I try and take the right step forward, some how everything is turned around and thrown at me!! And the sewer pipe has NOTHING to do with my property in anyway whatsoever.
Kind regards
Mylor

MacadamB53
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:42 am

Hi mylor,

specifically in relation to H2S leaks - what have the various experts that have been on site said?

kind regards, Mac

mylor
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:24 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi mylor,

specifically in relation to H2S leaks - what have the various experts that have been on site said?

kind regards, Mac
Hi MacadamB53,

None of them have got a clue what H2S is. Am sure of that, or they actually don't give a damn if people die.
Other than a quick sniff over the period of about two minuets, couldn't smell anything, therefore no problem! in their eyes.

I have explained again & again to the best of my ability to the authorities involved that it wafts around the building and clearly will all depend on what nx dr are doing with whatever plumbing features in their home they use that evacuate to the sewer pipe.

So instead of any authority endevouring to investigate and use tools to measure deadly gases, a few sniffs is all it takes from them.

Am disgusted with the lack of knowledge by people in place to protect public health, by law and by their duties. All that's ending up happening for some unknown reason is that the authorities appear to have turned this into a case of trying to prove them selves right and me as some sort of bad entity thats needs to be stopped??
Well that's how it's making me feel. Furious, livid etc does not even touch on how I am feeling about this.
The worst point being that this is just dragging out the pain and anguish for me.

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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:40 pm

jonahinoz wrote:Is there an easement in your deeds for this sewage pipe ? How long has it been there ?

Hi,

Is there anything or, or your neighbour's, deeds allowing your neighbours to excavate in your garden to repair their sewers.

I don't know about these things. Is hydrogen sulfide explosive? I assume by poisonous, you mean it will kill you? Tell Whoever that you are planning to go down the inspection chamber with a torch, date and time ... ask if they would like to come with you, to check your findings.

Er ... Do not go into the inspection chamber, just say you are going to. Perhaps the thought of an interested Coroner might concentrate their minds.

Sue your neighbour for damage to your house and loss of enjoyment. Let his insurers investigate. I assume he has house insurance, which will include third party claims.

John W

Hi jonahinoz,
Yes in my deeds there are easements in place for utilities allowing for the apparatus of the authorities to have permission to enter my land for maintenance etc.
Hydrogen sulfide sewer gas can kill, here is a very very interesting but for me terrifying link to just this very subject : https://archive.org/stream/sewergasitsd ... w_djvu.txt

Thanks for the reminder regarding nx dr and insurance and compensation, Can't get over the stupidity of nx dr beleiving that their sh*t pipe is not their problem! The only problem is insurance need proof hahahaha how do I prove invisible gas?

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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:45 pm

jdfi wrote:It would be interesting if you were to excavate the trench that contains this pipe, and just leave the pipe exposed for a while, as if nothing else this would allow your expert to see precisely where any leakage is coming from, and hopefully prove your case.
Hi jdfi,
I agree, that would be interesting. I can't understand why they did not do a pressure test as these sere pipes have to be 100% airtight I mentioned it to them but was totally ignored. In my porch that is half surrounded by this sewer pipe, I have decided to lift up the flooring that I had put down years ago. If my memory serves me right, when the concrete base below was exposed it STANK - at that time I had no idea what the dreadful smell was. I do now tho.
Kindest regards
Mylor

jonahinoz
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by jonahinoz » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:43 pm

Thanks for the reminder regarding nx dr and insurance and compensation

Hi Mylor,

When I tried to claim on my insurance for subsidence, the insurers told me to call in a civil engineer, at my own expense, to confirm there was subsidence.

The surveyor duly confirmed the subsidence. The insurers then paid the engineer's fees, which did not seen particularly excessive. Amazingly, the insurers paid for underpinning ... the bit of my house that was leaning had originally been a dairy (miking cows), and had NO foundations below ground level. Replacing the sloping corrugated roof with a pitched roof (concrete tiles) probably didn't help.

I may have a photo of my "two cottages knocked into one", with the dairy being rendered. No, photo only shows one of the two cottages. The other cottage was the same size.

Try a Google for Civil Engineers in your town, see if they can help, and what they charge. Get a detailed invoice that you can pass on to whoever is responsible.

John W

John W
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Hugh Jaleak
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by Hugh Jaleak » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:40 pm

I'll try and bring some of this into context. Firstly, any drain or sewer serving a single property, from where it passes under the Boundary, should be the Sewerage provider's responsibility. SWW seem to have accepted responsibility, but given it appears from the description, the pipework remains sound, and is working ok, then it is highly unlikely they will do anything with it. A smoke test will determine if the pipe is leaking, but even then, if it doesn't directly run under the building, I think it very unlikely there will be any escape of smoke (and therefore gas) into the premises, unless there is a redundant branch from this section of pipework going into/under the building. Does the pipe go into the neighbours, and to a ventilated stack?

There are miles of drains up and down the country, in poor condition, but continuing to work adequately, displaced joints are fairly common due to ground movement, but unless pipe is in extremely poor condition, remedial works aren't always necessary, contrary to what a lot of drainage companies tell you.... In this instance the pipe may benefit from being lining, simply to seal it, but I cannot guarantee this would change anything. I have to think, if all the professionals involved here, (including Environmental Health), cannot see an issue, and you say yourself "there is no photographic evidence as there is nothing to see", then at some point it has to be accepted there may not be a problem with that drain.

If you seriously believe there is H2S entering the property, hire a Gas detection monitor. All sewer workers carry these, and they will detect H2S levels as low as 1 PPM. https://www.crowcon.com/ The Tetra 3 or Gasman (for H2S) are the common types used in the Water Industry for sewer works. Keep a diary and photo evidence of the digital display if any gas is detected.

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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Hi Hugh
Thanks for your message. Just spent two hours putting together sequence of strange. WRONG, events etc lost the lot TWICE.
Hope to attaché 3D diagram for clearer picture. I have HYDROGEN SULFIDE INSIDE MY HOME have recorded readings on MSA ALTAIR of 1ppm all time and date stamped. Sent to authorities last week and they. ALL IGNORED OT!?!?!

Clifford Pope
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by Clifford Pope » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:30 pm

A quick Google for the safe Hydrogen Sulphide limits show:
The workplace exposure limits (WELs), for H2S are 5 ppm, according to COSH.

I recall from school chemistry that it is as dangerous as Hydrogen Cyanide, but because of its vile smell it is easy to overestimate its presence.

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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:31 pm

Hi Hugh,
Thank you for your comment.
I had to leave my home AGAIN yesterday. Its going to drive me insane of it does not kill me first. When EVER next door are home in HOARDS, dogs him her kids their kids their mates etc My blood boils as they use their plumbing, I want to go round and rip out all the their plumbing as it is KILLING ME!

After the 20 years investigating EVERY millimeter of my home making all the right improvements, if I say so myself Bang on with home maintenance I do and have done things most male diy'ers would not attempt, I always do a good job every time, had plenty of great experiences. But this repulsive problem, was almost like a supernatural activity, so when you've checked and eliminated all possible parts of your place, the last PLACE you expect to discover THE LIFE DESTROYING 20 YEARS YOU INOCCENTLY ENDEAVOURING WITH VIGOUR, (& full time working single mum with a mortgage) your slack IGNORANT STUPID filthy neighbours SOLE USE foul SEWER pipe.


I have used an MSA ALTAIRE X4 GAS monitor and have readings of 1ppm HYDROGEN SULFIDE INSIDE MY HOME. Recorded all the readings time and date stamped, sent to all IDIOT DANGEROUS AUTHORITIES last week and THEY HAVE IGNORED ME!!!!????
Hope my attachments are visible they show more than I can describe

Using 2 awkward mobile phones to post so not looking coherent due to not being at on my pc

despair
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by despair » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:48 pm

Have you contacted your MP or local Councillor or maybe local paper

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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:18 pm

This is carrying onfrom my reply yesterday, on pc now, instead of 2 dodgy mobile phones.

Cont....

Trouble attaching photos....
It gets FAR WORSE. I went to environmental dept. THEY ARE A DEPARTMENT FULL OF MONUMENTAL IDIOTS THICKER THAN THE NEIGHBOURS. They have done NOTHING they have caused MASSIVE STRESS to me, I see it all its a DISGRACE BEYOND COMPREHENSION, they did not listen to one WORD I said, disbelieved!!?! That Much that THEY ie water and council TREATED ME LIKE I WAS A BARKING RAVING FREAK WITH BIG ISSUES A NUT JOB AN ALARMIST AN ATTENTION SEEKER AND HAVE TREATED ME LIKE UTTER SH*T. This is so bad and LONG.

I'm thinking of blotting the names out and put ALL the emails on here THIS IS so RARE that they had no doubt in their Idiotic brains that I was a FREAK and they righteous gods! The looks of horror and disgust on ALL their faces when I insisted I knew What I was TALKING ABOUT what's the point though, they did not act they have a LEGAL DUTY to. They made a GRAVE Error and I am being dragged through A COMPLAINTS procedure NO HELP instead signed my DEATH certificate! What in gods name IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

THIS IS IS MURDER, IN MY HOME, NO ONE HAS A CLUE tagged all news TV, nope! So many idiotis PEOPLE do NOTKNOW WHAT A RARE ISSUE this is IT DOES Not happen so no one has Anything to refer back to. People are shocked and can't quite get their minds around what their ears are hearing

I am BEYOND DESPAIR THIS IS A MIND f**k of THE THE VILEST PROPORTIONS IT'S ILLEGAL but I CAN'T get any HELP even though this is A BIG NEWS EVENT THIS HAS TO STOP, questions need answering from these authorities, am still thinking of putting the emails up and you can see for yourself how twisted this has been made by bare faced lies . THE WIDE SPREAD IGNORANCE in Cornwall is UNREAL. Am in a constant state of hyper vigilance which is wreaking havoc on the sever PTSD that I suffer with, which I have tried so hard to bring calm to my life. NOW THIS. I just can NOT find enough words to put across what a contorted monumental cods up has been CAUSED by people that should not be doing the jobs these nerds are in as far as I'm concerened they are a DANGER to trhe public.

Still, I am no further ahead, MORE THAN ANYTHING, AS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE, I NEED FOR MY HEALTH IN ALL ASPECTS FOR THE HYDROGEN SULFIDE TO STOP, when that is STOPPED then so will the foul waste water that escapes continually deep underground, from the same place the H2S is escaping from no doubt.

I still do not understand why sww will bung an H2S monitor outside in a manhole that is NOWHERE near the problem, but why habe they not put one INSIDE my home, after all This is where the problem IS. But no, not sww, they appear to have a very different agenda going on here. I haver written TWICE to ask them why they have not done this, and TWICE they just simply ignore my communications and carry on, words are failing me right now, well, best I stop now as I feel an avalanche of expletives is fast approaching.

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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:21 pm

hereitissww.jpg
I hope this diagram can give more clarity to this RARE (IDIOTIC sewer pipe laying) DANGEROUS SITUATION.

I could not attach the gif which shows what happens when the neighbours use the downstairs loo or bathroom and it all exits down the stack to the sewer pipe , when it hits the right angle at 6ft , and EXACTLY 10 inches from the right hand side base of my porch as you view it, this is where I suspect 100% the leak is. It is NOT the actual sewer pipe BUT it's the one of the 2 holes INSIDE at the bottom of the MANHOLE that facilitate the change of direction under and across my garden, so either where it goes in or where it goes out from THAT manhole.
heathenhole.jpg
heathenexact.jpg
It was only when I ripped up the porch floor, that I noticed, only ONE corner had been, and still is, affected by foul waste water. The same corner I placed the large dehumidifier for a WHOLE YEAR it runs 24/7 and collects vasts amount all the time, 8-10 litre on a weekend when I am NOT in my home and it is empty, whether it's hot & dry or cold and wet, it remains the same. To me this was a massive ARROW pointing to exactly where this problem is coming from.
The rest of my porch floor, which is hugged only 10 inches between my foundations and sewer pipe, for 12 feet, being two sides of 6 ft square porch by neighbours sewerpipe, the floor was bone dry , there's no mold in sight, so to me that kind of indicates that there is no evident leak from the pipe for those 12 feet.

That (heathen hole, my name for it) manhole that is the PROBLEM, sits offering a meagre one inch of it's edge on the boundary line between them and me GREAT! It is 10 inches from that corner outside and 20 inches from it INSIDE the cornerof my porch VIOLA moldy and wet.

Sww are hell bent on it being condensation. Give it a break. I've mainatined and managed , meticulously, my home for 20 years, YAWN what an utter insane idea, arethey blind? or just massively STUPID?

So my heads in a mess as this has dragged for a whole year, I'm in the process of complaints procedure and am SEVERLEY stressed with the battle field of paperwork that these authorities just love to generate , keeping bums on seats and getting sweet FA done. It has turned into a BRAWL with complaints procedure for BOTH authorities and they are even thicker than the original query takers, it just gets WORSE.

Let's not forget whilst they are pen pushing (very badly I might add) to any old time limit they feel like, if they can be bothered, or even if they KNOW what they are supposed to do,... at yopur leisure eh, why not? I HAVE THE JOY OF STILL HAVING NO CHOICE BUT TO BREATH IN HYDROGEN SULFIDE INSIDE MY HOME, sure I'll just put my feet up and raise a glass to your efforts sww and public ?protection? (%&^*$%^&%$!!) team.
hereitissww.jpg
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by mylor » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:44 pm

1ppm a.jpg
Some screen shots of H2S readings on MSA Altaire X4 gas monitor, this gas is measured ppm part per million.
These reading taken INSIDE my home two weeks ago where recorded throughout the duration I had the monitor on, as an example, in one 27 minuet period, 13 readings of 1ppm occured in that time.

When the neighbours are OUT. I do not have any H2S inside my home. It enters when they use their plumbing ONLY.
This gas on other euipment is also read at ppb part per billion.

Sww complaints exhausted, so I wrote and posted complaint to sww Managing Director, worse than useless now, who ever was nominated to deal with this problem. Al so going through consumer council for water and they are THE SAME they are all part of the same pie, and pretend not to be be .

At the start of all this, and getting the opposite to help from EH, I was so distressed and in despair, that I complained to LGO at the same time as I made online complaint to council, I was upsset confused & furious, plus NOT having done any of this before, I did not cause this problem, it is neighbours pipe.

Well well well , LGO wrote back about a week later, they where clearly cross with me ? slapping my wrist for not FOLLOWING THE COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE, oh sorry I had no idea what the hell I was meant to do when EH where USELESS and NO HELP the overall tone initally was a tad terse? oh but when I got to the end I was amazed and angry to read that after my telling off LGO had advised local council, passed on my complaint to them, and that they did not need to remind me that they may NOT look at my complaint as , I already was aware ( I was not I was clueless so hyper shocked to read this) that the LGO has a 12 month time limit and I was nearly outside that. To be exact the FIRST solid contact over this was with sww 17th March 2017. So still got 5 days, if I go their root. BUT I beg to differ on dates, AARRGGHHHH STOP STOP NOW.

You can see where this is going, I was livid after reading the attitude from LGO, this prompted a google fest - first thing up ombudsman watch lgo watch, so plenty of other sites and in particular for LGO. At the end of the day LGO gets a slatting as it is suggested that all the LGO are in fact ex council workers. Googled the ones who had their naMES ON COMMUNICATIONS TO ME AND omg THEY STILL work FOR THE COUNCIL, bias or what?.
No idea what to do, Been told a specialist needed as also human rights violated article 1 protocol 1 and article 8, been citizens advise, and they like I can not find any one in south west, but regardless of that I can NOT afford one, If I could I would have had this done and dusted ages ago. No legal aid either.. I emailed all the enviromental health and human rights organisations that I could find online and not heard a thing back from any of them.
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MacadamB53
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Re: Hazardous sewer pipe conundrum responsibility?

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:07 am

Hi mylor,

if the heathen hope, as you call it, is a private sewer if it is not on your land and is only serving next door so SWW are not responsible for it - the neighbour is 100% responsible.

via what avenue did you attempt to engage the council?

kind regards, Mac

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