Listed Building & Building Regulations Consent

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Flashy
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:16 pm

Listed Building & Building Regulations Consent

Post by Flashy » Tue May 28, 2019 9:05 am

Hi All,

We're looking at buying a property, of brick and timber construction. Parts of the building date back to the 1600's, so not surprisingly its Grade II listed. The listing text says, amongst other things "Much modernised and altered". It was originally listed in 1973.

The now deceased owner had some work done on the house in the 1980's - specifically the addition of an upstairs bathroom, which is, in effect, an upstairs extension that creates another gable in the roof. The seller (a relative) has now said that they cannot find evidence of listing nor building regulation consent for the work and have offered an idemnity insurance cover.

We have been advised by a builder that the added extension would need the addition of a steel beam on the supporting wall below as he could see some bowing in the kitchen roof which is below the 'new' gable.

My questions are, if anyone has any experience on these matters:
- what could the listing authority or building control potentially ask of the new owners?
- is indemnity insurance enough - should we be asking them to get restrospective listing consent? (they seem in a rush and would probably not do this, but that is a detail)
- presumably builing control would need to approve an additional beam, so could the lack of orginal consent become an issue?

Any input most gratefully received.

J

LordMulberry
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:02 pm

Re: Listed Building & Building Regulations Consent

Post by LordMulberry » Tue May 28, 2019 2:45 pm

I have a listed building and experience teaches that it all depends on the local council's conservation officer. The worst case scenario is that they could demand that the building is returned to its original state. Most COs that I know of will try to come to some agreement with the new owner. But remember it is the new owner's responsibility to implement any decision by the council.

Flashy
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:16 pm

Re: Listed Building & Building Regulations Consent

Post by Flashy » Tue May 28, 2019 6:25 pm

LordMulberry wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:45 pm
I have a listed building and experience teaches that it all depends on the local council's conservation officer. The worst case scenario is that they could demand that the building is returned to its original state. Most COs that I know of will try to come to some agreement with the new owner. But remember it is the new owner's responsibility to implement any decision by the council.
Thanks. We're having some doubts about the indemnity insurance, in that any future alterations could render it null and void, and so we'd be in a position of owning a Grade II listed property, and too scared to make any alterations of repairs.

We're considering giving the seller the option of either applying for retrospective consent, or agreeing with us the cost for complete rectification and reducing the cost of the property in line with that cost.

Whilst we're chain free, I'm not convinced the seller would go for this. I'm not sure if anyone here has experience on how these things pan out.

mr sheen
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Listed Building & Building Regulations Consent

Post by mr sheen » Tue May 28, 2019 7:46 pm

Listed building violations can be criminal offences. This can be a complex area and liability passes to new owners, so if I was you I'd ask the current owners to sort out Listed building consent for all works and get property accepted as currently is (have direct experience of this occurring on sale of Grade II - sellers obtained all permissions easily but potential purchasers required it before proceeding- it incurs no costs either...so....
If they refuse to sort this out then dinga-ling-a-ling them alarm bells should ring.

Your solicitor will require all the relevant permissions and will probably advise that Listed Building consent is required and will advise you accordingly if it isn't available. also, if you need a mortgage, the mortgage providor's solicitor will also require it.

Flashy
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:16 pm

Re: Listed Building & Building Regulations Consent

Post by Flashy » Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:46 pm
Listed building violations can be criminal offences. This can be a complex area and liability passes to new owners, so if I was you I'd ask the current owners to sort out Listed building consent for all works and get property accepted as currently is (have direct experience of this occurring on sale of Grade II - sellers obtained all permissions easily but potential purchasers required it before proceeding- it incurs no costs either...so....
If they refuse to sort this out then dinga-ling-a-ling them alarm bells should ring.

Your solicitor will require all the relevant permissions and will probably advise that Listed Building consent is required and will advise you accordingly if it isn't available. also, if you need a mortgage, the mortgage providor's solicitor will also require it.
Thanks Mr Sheen. Thats I think the likely route for us. When you say no costs, I assume they would need to subimt drawings etc and employ an architect, or is it a simpler process?

We've found out that planning consent was given in the 80's and will seek a copy of the document from the council. We've also found out that the listing had an error on it - it had the name of a house down the road! It appears to have only been corrected last year when the owner passed away, and the owner of the other house called to get it corrected.

So I wonder if the deceased owner, even knew it was listed. A search on the house name (very similar to the house down the road), would not have revealed the listing. Whether this would be a defence I'm not sure?

I'm guessing the listing officers will say it was still obvious it was listed as the owner would have known it was an old property above 150 years old?

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