When is your garden not your garden...?

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Treeb
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When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by Treeb » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:56 pm

Hi all

First post, and a big question... We're in the final stages of buying an end terrace property with gardens to three sides. Beyond the garden is a public footpath, on the other side of which is a school field, so no neighbors or access issues. We've now received the land registry maps, which show that the red boundary line goes in a straight line along the side of the house, losing the side garden, and a third of the front and rear gardens! This amounts to around a third of the footprint of the property we thought we were buying! And we were looking to eventually extend onto the side of the property as the wife is pregnant.....
We queried this of course, and the not particularly straight forward answer was that as there is no information as the property is probate, it's up to us to look into it?!
We feel we're potentially buying ourselves a big headache and a long legal hoo-ha and probably costs also? Very close to walking away from it and starting again.

Any advice much appreciated.

Collaborate
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by Collaborate » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:08 pm

Walk away.

What does the search of the index map say the ownership is? (likely to be unregistered I know).

span
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by span » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:53 pm

That's not a house you're buying, that's an unopened can of worms.
not particularly straight forward answer was that as there is no information as the property is probate
Who told you that? Estate agent or executor? It's a cop out at best, at worst someone's looking for a mug.

Treeb
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by Treeb » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:50 am

Thank you both for confirming what I suppose I already knew what was coming..... Executor on a no completion no fee trying to gloss over unregistered land by the looks of it.

We're first time buyers, and marveling at how the system works (or rather doesn't...) In any other purchase, you'd surely be arrested for trying to sell something you don't own?! How it's legal to allow someone to spend months of their time, and not a small amount on searches etc, only to shrug their shoulders and walk away when you find that what you viewed and made an offer on isn't what you're getting?!

SJC14
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by SJC14 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:24 am

Treeb wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:50 am
Thank you both for confirming what I suppose I already knew what was coming..... Executor on a no completion no fee trying to gloss over unregistered land by the looks of it.

We're first time buyers, and marveling at how the system works (or rather doesn't...) In any other purchase, you'd surely be arrested for trying to sell something you don't own?! How it's legal to allow someone to spend months of their time, and not a small amount on searches etc, only to shrug their shoulders and walk away when you find that what you viewed and made an offer on isn't what you're getting?!
Is an Estate Agent handling this or direct with a probate lawyer? It is an offence under the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 to make a false or misleading statement about property. This applies whether the statement is made orally or in writing, by pictures or by any other method of signifying meaning. Why is there a gap between what you think is for sale and what truly is? Some pics would help.

liveinpeace
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by liveinpeace » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:30 pm

hi Treeb
sorry you are going through this, your first home should be an exciting adventure. you are right though the way the law works is truly bonkers, as most of us on this forum have found out.
At least you have discovered this before you owned the property, though as a first time buyer I am sure its taken you a lot of saving and the loss off money on searches must have stung a bit.
Before giving up is there anyway of saying that you want the property but are definitely pulling out if its not sorted, have you spoken to the estate agent? Can they talk to the sellers.
you never know the land may have been used by the owners of the property of the house for over 20 years and the neighbours may not be are interested in contesting the ownership. It may even be worth talking to a neighbour.
regards
Liveinpeace

arborlad
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by arborlad » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:37 pm

Treeb wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:56 pm
Hi all

First post, and a big question... We're in the final stages of buying an end terrace property with gardens to three sides. Beyond the garden is a public footpath, on the other side of which is a school field, so no neighbors or access issues. We've now received the land registry maps, which show that the red boundary line goes in a straight line along the side of the house, losing the side garden, and a third of the front and rear gardens! This amounts to around a third of the footprint of the property we thought we were buying! And we were looking to eventually extend onto the side of the property as the wife is pregnant.....
We queried this of course, and the not particularly straight forward answer was that as there is no information as the property is probate, it's up to us to look into it?!
We feel we're potentially buying ourselves a big headache and a long legal hoo-ha and probably costs also? Very close to walking away from it and starting again.

Any advice much appreciated.



That's a big chunk of land to not have but I wouldn't take it at face value. How old is the property, what boundary features does it have, as you're end terrace, what is it like at the other end, have you checked with Land Registry to see if the bit between the red line and the footpath is under a separate title, how is the property described in any listings etc.?

Land Registry: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... d-registry
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Treeb
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by Treeb » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:09 pm

So, after an hour of trying to put pictures up and it's not having it...I give up.

There's no neighbours to dispute. The garden is fenced all the way round and surrounded by public path, to the east a cul de sac road, to the south a fenced school field, and west a grassed council area. Houses were built 1984.

We're definitely ready to walk away now. They'll get a call tomorrow saying basically that this is your mess to sort out, not ours. You have x amount of time to do so as we're looking at other properties. If we find something else we want before it's sorted...we're 100% out.

Lets see how that pans out..

arborlad
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by arborlad » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:59 pm

You need a minimum of 3 posts before you have permission to post photos - you now have them.

What are the chances that the chunk of land has been adversely possessed but your predecessor failed to complete the process?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

ukmicky
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by ukmicky » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:51 pm

Yes


If you show the fence has been there 10 years or 12 depending on if it’s registered or not through satellite images you would have a chance of gaining it officially through adverse possession. Unless that is ,its highway and was fenced in without permission.


However as it’s such a large amount of land that will will adversely affect the property if you lost it , I would walk away.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

mr sheen
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Re: When is your garden not your garden...?

Post by mr sheen » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:39 pm

You are entering into a contract to buy what is clearly identified in the documents. This is a written contract transaction where you buy what is shown on the documents in exchange for money. Usually the situation on the ground and the documents match and your solicitor usually asks you to confirm exactly this....and if it does not, the solicitor will advise you.

Anything else that anyone 'says' in the pre-exchange marketing exercise is irrelevant when there is a written contract.

If you are not happy with what you are buying, as identified in the contract, your option is to walk away.

If you choose to buy the land identified in the documents, that is exactly what will be transferred into your ownership and that is the only land that you will be able to prove is owned by you.

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