Please help - ROW for neighbour

Countrybumpkin
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Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by Countrybumpkin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Hello knowledgable people,

Please bear with me as I’m trying to get my head around terms and words in relation to the ROW issue I have. Any help greatly appreciated

We purchased a semi detached cottage in November and were aware at the time that the adjoining cottage has a pedestrianised ROW across the front of our cottage into their garden.

They also have private access to their property at the bottom of their garden with a path leading to their front door.

Our deeds state this -

*our property address* excepting and reserving unto the transferred or the owners or occupiers for the time being of the adjoining property known as *neighbours house* aforesaid (which said property is show for the purpose of identification only edged blue on the plan annexed hereto) a right of way on foot only at all times and for all purposes of over and along the footpath shown with. Brown line on the plan

Dated July 2006

Basically our neighbours are quite inconsiderate and chose to use this access instead of their own. However they walk their dog off lead along this right of way which makes our dogs bark constantly and wakes me up during the day when I am sleeping (I work night shifts), their dog constantly then walks all over our flower beds and urinates on our freshly seeded grass which now has multiple burnt patches (our dogs have a run they toilet in and don’t go on the grass)

They are dropping large clumps of mud from heir boots all over our gravel which then makes our shoes dirty and I have just lost all patience with it when they have their own access in and out of their property which wouldn’t require crossing our land

So my wonderment is can we have this removed without their permission as although I haven’t discussed with them yet, I can’t see them willingly giving up the ROW.

Many thanks if you got this far and will try and answer any questions in order to help me!

mr sheen
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by mr sheen » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:29 pm

A right of way on foot at all times and for all purposes.....

Means exactly that ie 24/7; 365 days per year for whatever they wish as long as they are on foot.

It is a legal interest in your property and cannot be removed without their written agreement for which they will want substantial cash.

This was factored into the value of both properties at the time and influences the saleability and value at every sale with discerning purchasers making an informed decision about the value based on the fact that the neighbour has 24/7 access across the land.

The availability of alternative accesses is irrelevant.

Countrybumpkin
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by Countrybumpkin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:37 pm

Thankyou for taking the time to reply.

I am aware of what that means but in hindsight (wonderful I know) is becoming very disruptive and cause somewhat irreparable ‘damage’ to our property. They have ROW to walk across the front - not for their dog to wander where it likes (occasionally even into our house!)

This is why we are trying to ascertain if this ROW can be removed obviously at our expense

On a further note - would they technically be allowed to be bringing wheelie bins, wheelbarrows etc across the front as that’s not ‘on foot’ it’s on wheels? Or am I splitting hairs here?

Thank you again for a prompt response

MacadamB53
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:12 pm

Hi Countrybumpkin,

they (and their visitors) are allowed to carry bags, wheel bins, etc. along the RoW.

they can do so whilst wearing muddy shoes.

they can be accompanied by pets.

damaging the RoW land - beyond the wear expected from use - would be unlawful.

allowing their dog to stray on to land beyond the RoW and cause provable damages would be considered unlawful.

kind regards, Mac

mr sheen
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by mr sheen » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:18 pm

They are on foot pushing the wheelbarrow and wheelie bins so yes allowed.

You can offer to buy their right of way off them but they can ask whatever they want for it. In reality it is extremely rare for someone to sell a property right since it adds value and saleability to the property.

Dogs should be under the control of the owner in public although this is subjective. You could ask them to keep the dog on a lead when using the rOW if relations are good they may comply if things have broken down then they may just ignore you.

It is advisable to remain on reasonable terms with property owners that benefit from rights over your land because they can make life difficult for the servient occupiers.

Countrybumpkin
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by Countrybumpkin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:31 pm

Thankyou all for your replies

If we were to offer to buy the ROW from them, Is there a reasonable cost to expect to offer and be accepted?

We have asked them to put their dog on a lead and it happened once - it has also killed one of our hens whilst roaming on our land 🙄

So in a nutshell unless they agree we cannot remove the ROW without their consent :( regardless of the cost!

mr sheen
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by mr sheen » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:42 pm

They can pluck a figure out of thin air and you can take it or leave it.
You could suggest having a surveyor assess the value of the right and both agree to abide by what he values it at but they wouldn't be bound by it and could change their mind and you would have surveyors costs to pay.

If they don't want to sell, there is nothing you can do about the right of way since it is part of their property rights and permanent.

Learning experience for when you buy your next property :)

MacadamB53
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:45 pm

Hi mr sheen,

Dogs should be under the control of the owner in public

the law has it that a dog owner must not allow their dog to be dangerously out of control - which is different.

and that’s anywhere, not just in public.

kind regards, Mac

Countrybumpkin
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by Countrybumpkin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:55 pm

So I’m perfectly within my right to request the dog remains on the lead whilst crossing our property

I’m going to speak to them later to politely request they start using their own path for reasons detailed in my first post and hope they will be reasonable

mugwump
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by mugwump » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:59 pm

Being off the lead is not dangerously out of control

Maybe op needs to do something about their dog barking constantly when the row is being used

Countrybumpkin
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by Countrybumpkin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:04 pm

Mugwump

In response to your comment which I did find a little rude tbh

My dogs bark as they are protecting their property, they only bark when the neighbours dog is crossing our property in a manner that I would not deem as being under control

They do not bark at any other time unless the door be rings which is what I would expect of them

So no - i do not expect my dogs to be quiet when this occurs. I expect my neighbours to have a little more respect for someone else’s property and not let their dog wander all over our garden or come into my house!

And if you have read, their dog has killed one of my chickens. Is that not dangerously out of control?

stufe35
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by stufe35 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:19 pm

"I’m going to speak to them later to politely request they start using their own path for reasons detailed in my first post and hope they will be reasonable"

My advise is that this is like a red rag to bull...They have a right of way across your property, it is for use at their descretion it is not a prevelige. Other routes to their property are purely incidental and are of no relevance to your complaints. By trying to control them they are more likely to harden their position to enforce their rights until you understand them. It is no accident that they are known as the dominant owners and you are known as the servient owners.

They should behave reasonably and keep their dog under control...but your expectations of having a right of way through your land also have to be reasonable. Telling people to use another route i believe will escalate the situation not help it.

MacadamB53
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:22 pm

stufe35 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:19 pm
"I’m going to speak to them later to politely request they start using their own path for reasons detailed in my first post and hope they will be reasonable"

My advise is that this is like a red rag to bull...They have a right of way across your property, it is for use at their descretion it is not a prevelige. Other routes to their property are purely incidental and are of no relevance to your complaints. By trying to control them they are more likely to harden their position to enforce their rights until you understand them. It is no accident that they are known as the dominant owners and you are known as the servient owners.

They should behave reasonably and keep their dog under control...but your expectations of having a right of way through your land also have to be reasonable. Telling people to use another route i believe will escalate the situation not help it.
+1

MacadamB53
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:25 pm

Countrybumpkin wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:55 pm
So I’m perfectly within my right to request the dog remains on the lead whilst crossing our property

I’m going to speak to them later to politely request they start using their own path for reasons detailed in my first post and hope they will be reasonable
only insofar as it’s not illegal to ask - and likewise they are within their rights to refuse because the law doesn’t have it that they must keep their dog under control...

that said, you mention that their dog has killed one of your chickens?

mr sheen
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Re: Please help - ROW for neighbour

Post by mr sheen » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:36 pm

You don't seem to have grasped your position.....

You can ASK anything you want but they have a RIGHT over your property and do not have to comply with any of your requests.

Their dog should not go onto other parts of your land but they will probably claim your dog's behaviour is spooking their dog. Aggressiveness from your dog to the persons using the path as of right can be considered a substantial interference of their rights for which they could sue you.

Their dog does not have to be on a lead but your dog has to be away from the right of way and should not be intimidating users.

You are they 'servient' occupier of this land but they are the 'dominant' occupier ie their rights are dominant and cannot be interfered with. It is irrelevant how many accesses they have, they can use this every second if they wish to and so can their visitors.

Your solicitor should have explained this to you before purchase was completed or you should have researched it. Many people buy what they think is a 'good buy' due to rights over the land only to find the rights of others very annoying.....if so they should learn from the experience.

But your options are limited to accepting the reality of the situation and their rights ....or offering shed loads of cash for them to legally surrender the rights ....or moving to a property suitable to your desires.

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