Party wall agreement; yes or no?

arborlad
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by arborlad »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:37 pm I'm pointing out that it is nonsensical.




On the contrary, it makes complete sense, and fits with the known facts - or are you disputing those as well?
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Collaborate
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by Collaborate »

arborlad wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:53 am
Collaborate wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:37 pm I'm pointing out that it is nonsensical.




On the contrary, it makes complete sense, and fits with the known facts - or are you disputing those as well?
OK clever cloggs. I've tried this on my dog and she understands. Let's see if you can too.

I am saying that an internal wall in a building can either be a boundary wall between two connected properties or it can be a wall that stands wholly inside one property in single ownership.

You tell me it can be both. I think you've lost the plot.
arborlad
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by arborlad »

Collaborate wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am Walls internal to one house are different to walls that divide two properties.




The wall in question spent all of its first decades as the blue. ONLY after division and first conveyance, did it become the purple.

The wall itself remains 'as built' AND fitting both descriptions.
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MacadamB53
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by MacadamB53 »

“The wall in question is both”

should have read:

“The wall in question has been both”

no?
Collaborate
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by Collaborate »

arborlad wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:41 pm
Collaborate wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am Walls internal to one house are different to walls that divide two properties.
The wall in question spent all of its first decades as the blue. ONLY after division and first conveyance, did it become the purple.

The wall itself remains 'as built' AND fitting both descriptions.
Wrong again
rs6mra wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:16 pm Our property used to be one dwelling when it was built and then split after the owner died between the two sons many many years ago. The loft/attic used to be one big space and a dividing wall was put in presumably when the division was done. Whoever did it got it wrong by 4 inches and when next door punched a hole in their ceiling it was in our loft space!!!!!
The owner next door now wants to move the wall in the loft with him covering all costs involved.
Do we need a party wall agreement?

Thanks
wtc
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by wtc »

There's a lot of arguing over the point but I'm not sure if helps the OP in any way.

To the extent the existing wall as-built is wholly within the OP's neighbour's loft and inside the boundary, it could be argued as internal. Though up to now, it has physically divided the lofts and had been an accepted marker of the boundary at loft level. So I somewhat see arborlad's point in that it was both: it has always been the divider and has always physically been on the neighbour's side. It is only the knowledge of being on the neighbour's side that has now changed.

Even a full structural survey will not pick up everything. Such a survey will not start pulling the house apart to see what is hidden.

The OP has not objected here to the wall coming down and being moved to where it should always have been. Losing a few inches of storeroom, but gaining a firebreak to modern standards and avoiding complication of flying freehold, all at no cost to the OP, seems a good deal.

Going right back to the start, the original suggestion given that there should be a PWA still holds, and that is for the old wall coming down (believed to have been the party wall up to now even if it wasn't) and new one (definitely a party wall) going up. This is especially since, if as described, there is no non-combustible wall whatsoever between the properties at present.
arborlad
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by arborlad »

arborlad wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:41 pm
Collaborate wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am Walls internal to one house are different to walls that divide two properties.




The wall in question spent all of its first decades as the blue. ONLY after division and first conveyance, did it become the purple.

The wall itself remains 'as built' AND fitting both descriptions.





Unless specified otherwise, the 'wall' referred to has been the ground floor wall.
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by Collaborate »

arborlad wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:24 am
arborlad wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:41 pm
Collaborate wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am Walls internal to one house are different to walls that divide two properties.




The wall in question spent all of its first decades as the blue. ONLY after division and first conveyance, did it become the purple.

The wall itself remains 'as built' AND fitting both descriptions.





Unless specified otherwise, the 'wall' referred to has been the ground floor wall.
This thread, if you have been paying attention, is literally about a wall built in the loft.

I have become even more concerned that you simply come on to this site to troll.
arborlad
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by arborlad »

arborlad wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:41 pm
Collaborate wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am Walls internal to one house are different to walls that divide two properties.




The wall in question spent all of its first decades as the blue. ONLY after division and first conveyance, did it become the purple.

The wall itself remains 'as built' AND fitting both descriptions.





The OP of this thread has some important and quite probably costly decisions to make, guided by the facts. One irrefutable fact is that the ground floor wall is the established boundary feature.
arborlad

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arborlad
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Re: Party wall agreement; yes or no?

Post by arborlad »

Collaborate wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:37 am This thread, if you have been paying attention, is literally about a wall built in the loft.





You are right to highlight that fact, however, where you are in error, is how much weight or significance can be given to one wall over another.
arborlad

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