retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

violetqueen
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by violetqueen »

screenshot of yet again 3.png
This plan from the 1900s shows A's house at the bottom of the image with trees in the long garden and a block of buildings at the top middle of the image .These are enclosed by what I assume is the wall in question .Assuming because it extends slightly to the east of A's garden .

So I assume the wall in question enclosed the block of buildings and belonged to them ? And redevolped to build Victorian houses where B is located ?

No idea what the implications of that are !
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violetqueen
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by violetqueen »

I've been studying the document from the Land Registry in respect of B and can quote this extract which to me seems to indicate that B is responsible for keeping the boundary walls in good something .I've italicised the words/phrases I'm unsure of .

And also will at all times hereafter keep the said messuage or dwellinghouse and all boundary walls and drains belonging thereto in good and/order ? able repair and condition /afterwards ? will permit the said CJH his heirs assigns ……..authorised by him or those once in every year in the day time belonging to .. the same ??? or occupier for the time being of the said messauage and dwelling house( 3 or 4 indecipherable words) in writing of their or his intention so to do to ?either side /enter site ? and enter the said messuages and proceed to examine the condition thereof .And also will at all times insure and keep insured against loss or damage by fire

I was tempted to start another thread on old deeds as I'm quite puzzled by this document and would love to know more,maybe from conveyancers ,no doubt it's a common form . What I don't understand is the underlying ,repeated stipulation in the indenture ( is this another term for deed ? ) between parties that a yearly sum of £6 will be paid forever to one of them and their heirs ans assignees . It makes it seem a bit like a lease rather than a sale ,especially if one party is able to inspect the premises every year and also insist it's insured .
IdefixUK
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by IdefixUK »

There is just a chance that the Land Regisrty have a clearer copy of the wording within the deeds relating to the houses either side of "B". Especially the property to the East (assuming North is up on the map)
Regards
violetqueen
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by violetqueen »

That thought had ocurred to me .Bit reluctant to hand over another £2O + for another similarly unreadable doc .

I think approching B's neighbours might be the way to go .Or talking to B and saying the copy I have obtained of this doc relating to your house indicates you are responsible for boundary walls .And leaving it to him to come up with a clearer doc to disprove .I think the stamp on the copy from the LR which is a slcr stamp ,dated recently corresponding with his purchase indicates that the LR copy is a true copy of the orginal . I think B has the orginal .
MacadamB53
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by MacadamB53 »

Hi violetqueen,

I think B has the orginal

I don’t see why?

kind regards, Mac
violetqueen
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by violetqueen »

I'm basing this on the assumption that in the year and v close to date that B bought his property a firm of slcr examined the LR copy of the doc and stamped it to cerify it was a true copy of the orginal .

As far as I can tell the LR do not hold orginals so I'm thinking it could be an original examined at time of sale held by the vendor and passed to the purchaser .Or mortgage company ?

But I could be barking up completely the wrong tree ! What do you think ?
IdefixUK
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by IdefixUK »

violetqueen,
Regarding the extract from the deeds of B, that looks to me very much like a "positive covenant" (google that), generally a positive covenant can only be enforced against the first purchaser of that property (B?), by the owner of the land that will benefit from the covenant (A possibly). I read somewhere that one way, historically , of attemping to ensure that the covenant didn't become unenforceable on change of ownership (of B?) was to write it in terms like a lease, then it would be enforceable against any subsequent purchasers. I cannot recall where I read this, so hopefully one of the more experienced contributors can either confirm or deny this.
Regards
violetqueen
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Re: retaining wall -responsibilty to maintain and /or for rebuilding costs

Post by violetqueen »

Hi Idefix - thanks for your helpful post .What you say rings a bell - covenants running with the property or the purchaser .I'll google .

Meanwhile I've googled "Rentcharges" and now understand a little more about them


Rentcharges are a rarity, but they do exist in particular parts of England, such as around Bath, Bristol and Manchester
Introduced mainly in the late 19th and early 20th century, rentcharges were put in place when landowners wanted to sell land at a reduced cost to developers with the land then freehold by the new owners but with a legal interest in the land and annual fee – or rentcharge – in place forever. The rentcharge was typically between £2 and £10, a figure that was reasonably high a century ago but is simply a peppercorn now



i'll just leave this link here which makes rather worrying reading .https://www.todaysconveyancer.co.uk/mai ... ntcharges/
violetqueen
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Retaining walls and responsibility. Again.

Post by violetqueen »

Can anyone comment on situation below.

House A uphill from house B . Houses in Bristol v steep topography,v old stone walls.
B says " we share a boundary wall, this wall constructed long before our property built and appears to have been built to retain your garden so could legally be regarded as wholly your responsibility."
B sent quote to A for£36,500 to repair and also remove planting in A's garden near wall.
B willing to share cost "on this occasion with no admission of responsibility for wall"
B make much of imminent collapse , need to do work over immediate coming weeks as less impact for them letting house. Say if work not done to fit their timescale will need to be done with all access through house A.
I'm going to try and attach photos.
photo wall.jpg
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Collaborate
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Re: Retaining walls and responsibility. Again.

Post by Collaborate »

You really need to be asking a question.

The wall may be the responsibility of one side or the other, or of both.

It depends on who altered the original groiund levels. You need to look at the surrounding topography for clues.

You also need to check the deeds.
arborlad
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Re: Retaining walls and responsibility. Again.

Post by arborlad »

Is this the same wall:




viewtopic.php?t=21519
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
violetqueen
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Re: Retaining walls and responsibility. Again.

Post by violetqueen »

arborlad - you may not believe me but I had forgotten that I had started that thread. Worrying.

Useful stuff on it , so big thank you for flagging up.

The photos in earlier thread show the wall at bottom of A's garden taken from one of the houses below A's house, it is to the left of the cross as viewing attached image
Neighbour A remains as in earlier thread, my friend. House marked with a pin.
A new approach by a different neighbour from house marked by a cross has been made.

Photo's attached to this thread are taken from the house marked with a cross .
2023 issue.png
Is A responsible- wholly or partly- for maintenance of wall enclosing her garden? I'm not really sure if this is the most important question to ask which is why I originally asked for comments. Sorry, finding this difficult.
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violetqueen
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Re: Retaining walls and responsibility. Again.

Post by violetqueen »

To me that suggests that the wall belongs to the B property. It is quite possible that they built it to retain your land when they lowered their land to make the rear gardens level. Had the builders of your property raised the level of your land they would have simply built a retaining wall along the back of property A. That they didn't do so suggests that it was the builders of property B who altered the levels of the land and that they, therefore are responsible for making sure the land of property A is supported.

This is guesswork though, and you may need a surveyor or a solicitor to advise further.



Collaborate posted above on my thread in 2019.I imagine it's still relevant so I've reposted to save him the trouble. Though should any other useful comments be available , I'd be grateful as ever.
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