Tree and boundary

PlymouthUser
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by PlymouthUser »

If this is a row of identically laid out houses how is this section of land considered by you and your other neighbour and the other neighbours of the same layout?
From your sketch it seems to show a hard return from the chicken wire (black line - brick wall?) which does not allow her access down the right hand side of her house, is this correct? If so it shows she does not have right of way along that side of her house from her drive.
Are you maintaining the lawn on that side section?
cycledude
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by cycledude »

Hi,

So the black line represents a small section of fence near the front of her house (at the side of her garage). She can only access the land behind it (shown in brown) by going to the back garden and then round the side. We always mowed and maintained that bit of grass at the front (the narrow strip that lies to the left of our path), but have stopped doing so since the solicitor says it's trespass (it seems to have become a bit of a no-man's land!)

Our position remains that she may well own the land there, but hasn't legally demonstrated this (shouting and pointing to title deeds doesn't count); either way we don't think she can force us to remove the tree - if it's on her land she is responsible (and we couldn't remove it without trespassing), if it's on our land we would keep it.
PlymouthUser
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by PlymouthUser »

Hi,

Ok so that’s how I understood your drawing but my question remains, for that same rectangular no man land section - how is that same section in your neighbours treated buy your neighbours? Do you accept your neighbour to the right owns that similar section and the same for other neighbours. If everyone in the street assumes they own that section by the neighbours drive to the left then that is surely a precedent.
Collaborate
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by Collaborate »

To be honest it seems to me to be most likely that the boundary does run in a straight line. The chicken wire fence points to that, and the black line may well simply be for security purposes to enclose the back garden.

I think your position of "if we own it you can't touch it - if you own it you can cut it down" is the right way to go about this.
PlymouthUser
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by PlymouthUser »

I assume from your omission to answer my question you have come to the conclusion it's their land. I'd never be in a hurry or willing to give up land unless there's proof of ownership.
cycledude
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by cycledude »

Hi Plymouth User,

I don't know if it's her land. I think it's a grey area (I don't think she's legally demonstrated it's her land). The interesting thing is she got a guy in to trim the cypress tree, but only the bit that overhangs her driveway (which she referred to as her side). The question is, why didn't she get the whole thing chopped down (has she been told by her solicitor that this would put her at risk of criminal damage?). She really hates my family, so would want to get rid of anything associated with us.
cycledude
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by cycledude »

Just to give some more background to the situation.

Our neighbour is a geriatric widow who used to be friends with my brother (this is about 6 years ago, maybe). He used to visit her to give her company, and he was a bit lonely. After a while his mental health started to deteriorate, and we found out that she was basically bullying him and wearing him down by making constant criticisms, but also using him to do odd jobs, order things on the web, etc. As a result I wrote a letter, respectfully saying what she was doing was unacceptable and should stop. After this things really went downhill and we have suffered about 5 years of this woman's verbal abuse.

She has shouted at our supermarket delivery driver ('get off my land!'), workmen who have come to our house, and me. For example is, a couple of years ago I was trimming the leylandii hedge that had grown out of control in our garden. I was standing on the ladder (again, completely in my own back garden); then I saw her appear at her bedroom window, and she started shouting 'Get off my hedge! Get off my hedge, you wimp!' I told her to shut up, then she shouted 'I'm going to get that policeman on you!'.

Also, if I go out in the front garden, she will often come out to start staring at me. If I look back, she starts waddling over and then starts muttering. She typically calls me things like 'virgin boy', 'sad little boy', says 'you've got no friends', 'you're a scrounger', etc (I'm a 42 year old man). When her so-called friends come round to visit her they stare at us or make snide comments. I think our neighbour is emotionally disturbed; I've never seen such hatred in someone - at times she has tried to push me (but she's old and overweight so can't do anything).

The last major incident was in the summer. I had thrown back some cuttings that she had thrown on our side, and when I walked into the front garden she started making snide comments and shouting at me. Hearing this, another geriatric who lives a few doors down 'came to her aid' and started having a go (ended up arguing about the boundary); then a third geriatric from a cul-de-sac comes across the road and starts trying to wind me up, saying 'You're intelligent, are you?', 'You don't work, do you? You've never had a job, have you?' and he later said 'I look forward to seeing you at night, I'm gonna sh*t on your face'. This is from a guy in his late sixties to early seventies.

We understand that our neighbour has been calling the police a lot over the years - basically if I even look at her or 'answer back' (I was told she'd had 'a lot of contact' with the police). The last time I spoke to the police they said her behaviour is harassment, but because there is no evidence it would be hard to prosecute. So the latest thing is they're trying is to intimidate us with the solicitors. And after all this, the letters from the solicitors (asking us to remove the cypress) said that we had been harassing and intimidating her, and she was willing to 'take out proceedings'. As an aside, it's interesting to note it took them a long time to get a letter (almost as if they had to try several ones), and they seem a bit tinpot (parts of the letter are poorly worded and barely make sense). Thankfully there haven't been any more incidents since the cameras have gone up.
despair
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by despair »

In your shoes i would get CCTV installed that recors sound too
It could be hidden in a bird box or similar but would be valuable evidence of crackpots
PlymouthUser
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by PlymouthUser »

thats a sad state of affairs, if it was me I would be petty and make her life a little more difficult and keep her occupied rather than her have time to make your life difficult - not advising that but just wanted to say.
However, in regards to the boundary debate and moving forward to a solution: it would still be useful to know if your garden boundary is the same for several houses in the street and if so how is your contentious boundary considered? Do you understand my question?

See my extended image below, your two neighbours to the right, how do they view the same boundary between themselves and either side of them!?

Boundary.jpg
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cycledude
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by cycledude »

Hi PlymouthUser,

I don't know to be honest, but I presume they think it's a straight line (an old woman a few doors up once came over and started telling us where the boundary is). They may well be right, but worth bearing in mind any of these people are likely to support our neighbour (they're all a similar demographic) even if she ran me over with her car. The usual pattern is she'll start mouthing off at me, and if I answer back she'll go and fetch some old codger (or he'll come over of his own accord) to 'defend' her.

It's also worth mentioning that the houses on this estate are all slightly different (different sizes and shapes of front gardens).

It seems strange that she only got her tree guy to chop the part of the cypress that overhangs her drive (I think she actually said 'don't cut their side') because she hates anything associated with our family (she put weedkiller on things my brother had planted in her front garden); we're thinking why hasn't she had the whole thing cut down? Our main theories are: 1. she's actually been told by the solicitor that the land ownership is a grey area (in which case it could be criminal damage), or 2. she's left it simply because she's a contrarian and we've said she needs to remove it if it's her land.

PS your illustration made me laugh, she is a bit of a sh*tbag :lol:
PlymouthUser
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Re: Tree and boundary

Post by PlymouthUser »

well to me you have to make a decision on how you want the outcome to look like.
1. Limbo land: Carry on as is with no one officially taking ownership
2. Your garden: you act as though it is your ground and take ownership, prune the tree, cut the grass, record (audio&visual) her behaviour with you and report, this puts pressure on her.
3. Give up land: Give up the ground to her (personally I would not do that unless presented with irrefutable evidence or sound professional feedback)

She's old and will become more frail and die, sorry to be frank but it's inevitable and therefore you have time on yourside hopefully. As you can se from her behaviour she is not confident in her position and despite all the bullying she wont do more than that - to me if you act as if it's your own garden she will just shout loudly and thats about it.

I would look at other houses in the street with the same type of side gate arrangement and see how those gardens are marked out. Can you with a picture show how your neighbour on your other side has the side entrance arrangement?

p.s. yeah 1st name for your problem neighbour that came to mind, made me smile so I kept it despite risking objections :-)
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