ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

wtc
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by wtc »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:05 am ... the dotted line on OP's boundary extends beyond the boundary with the access road and includes some of the boundary with B.
Just to flag that the map provided was only to illustrate layout and I would presume is not the one from any title plan, deed or licence. It does look very similar in style to those from maps.arcgis.com that my local council have for their interactive map.

The dotted lines on those maps indicate where there is no hedge or fence, for example where there is a crossover or open plan between neighbouring properties.

Here the dotted line would mean that the point the mapping provider surveyed it, that part of the boundary was open. So it would have been physically possible to drive over it from property A as described. Whether allowed to is another matter.
Rushton
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by Rushton »

True - a title plan would help. Even so, the ArcGIS maps from ESRI that many councils use are "reproduced from Ordnance Survey material", same source for title plans.
MacadamB53
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:05 am
MacadamB53 wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:07 pm the access road provides additional access to the rear of the OP’s property
I'm not sure this observation is relevant. The access road provides only access to the rear of OP's property, not additional access.

My point is that whilst OP has contractual rights to access the rear of his/her property over the access road then OP must look to the terms of the contract about what rights they have in the event that a third party is obstructing their access.

I am somewhat confused by the fact that the dotted line on OP's boundary extends beyond the boundary with the access road and includes some of the boundary with B. If that too is gated then OP has no documented right to access their property over B's land.
you stated “I would be very surprised were a lender to want to lend to a property with only contractual rights of access”

the OP stated “a condition of getting the mortgage granted was access right to the garage/parking space on the property”
ChocolateOrange
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by ChocolateOrange »

CherryBlack wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:37 am Could you clarify, please, ChocOr; is the width of your 'entrance' - ie the gap between C's angled fence and the corner of B's plot - enough, in itself, to allow the passage of your vehicle?

Ie, is it the presence of your neighbour's poorly-parked vehicles that is partially blocking your way, or would you actually need to 'cut' across the corner of B's plot in any case?
Hi,

On the conveyance deeds, there is a scaled diagram that shows we, A, have 9ft rear access directly onto the access road. The access road on that diagram is measured as 21ft wide with C, sharing the other 12 ft across that for the access to their garage (our land was split with thiers and they transferred us that access point). Nowhere does it mention anything about crossing property B, hence the first post asking about the clauses contained in their register regarding not allowing to interfere or obstruct anyone else's easements or possible legal easements/ROW.

The presence of the cars parked in front of property B garage means we cannot get our vehicle onto our property. If they parked inside the garage, it wouldn't be a problem, As property B's end of land is undetermined and open, we are unsure or unclear where their land legally ends, but the confusion is why we have scaled map evidence of rear access granted if it's not written in anywhere other than our conveyance deeds with property C. The mortgage mentions that access to garage space is also a condition of the mortgage leading me to believe even more we do not have to have permission from any one else other than the council.
hope that makes sense.
CherryBlack
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by CherryBlack »

ChocolateOrange wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:08 pm
CherryBlack wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:37 am Could you clarify, please, ChocOr; is the width of your 'entrance' - ie the gap between C's angled fence and the corner of B's plot - enough, in itself, to allow the passage of your vehicle?

Ie, is it the presence of your neighbour's poorly-parked vehicles that is partially blocking your way, or would you actually need to 'cut' across the corner of B's plot in any case?
Hi,

On the conveyance deeds, there is a scaled diagram that shows we, A, have 9ft rear access directly onto the access road. The access road on that diagram is measured as 21ft wide with C, sharing the other 12 ft across that for the access to their garage (our land was split with thiers and they transferred us that access point). Nowhere does it mention anything about crossing property B, hence the first post asking about the clauses contained in their register regarding not allowing to interfere or obstruct anyone else's easements or possible legal easements/ROW.

The presence of the cars parked in front of property B garage means we cannot get our vehicle onto our property. If they parked inside the garage, it wouldn't be a problem, As property B's end of land is undetermined and open, we are unsure or unclear where their land legally ends, but the confusion is why we have scaled map evidence of rear access granted if it's not written in anywhere other than our conveyance deeds with property C. The mortgage mentions that access to garage space is also a condition of the mortgage leading me to believe even more we do not have to have permission from any one else other than the council.
hope that makes sense.
Sorry, CocOr, I'm still unclear.

If we assume that the RH side of that Access road as you enter follows the shown line, therefore continuing straight along the front of property B until it becomes dotted as it continues across their garage frontage - cutting a third off their cars in the process - until it then joins your shared boundary at what looks like right-angles, what is the distance between that dotted corner and the fence of property C?

I know there isn't a physical line on the ground, but if you were to continue these boundary lines using a string, that is the corner I am referring to.

So, DO you have enough width to pass a vehicle down there without passing over that corner, or is it the presence of B's cars sticking out that are causing the blockage?

Where is this "9' rear access" you are referring to? Could you mark that on the plan for us? Do you have any other deeds plans or maps?

IF the restriction is caused by B's vehicles overstepping their 'dotted boundary line', then a simple way to force the issue is to park your car immediately behind theirs. When they bitc... er complain, you point out that they, too, are parked on the access road, so what's the difference, pal? If they wish to take that matter further, then they'll find that their parking is also non-compliant.
Rushton
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by Rushton »

ChocolateOrange wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:08 pm As property B's end of land is undetermined and open, we are unsure or unclear where their land legally ends
Does that mean you have spent the £3 on the LR site and downloaded property B's title plan and it doesn't fully demarcate their land adjacent to the access road and your own property?
MacadamB53
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Re: ROW to park on our property being blocked by neighbour

Post by MacadamB53 »

ChocolateOrange wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:08 pm
CherryBlack wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:37 am Could you clarify, please, ChocOr; is the width of your 'entrance' - ie the gap between C's angled fence and the corner of B's plot - enough, in itself, to allow the passage of your vehicle?

Ie, is it the presence of your neighbour's poorly-parked vehicles that is partially blocking your way, or would you actually need to 'cut' across the corner of B's plot in any case?
Hi,

On the conveyance deeds, there is a scaled diagram that shows we, A, have 9ft rear access directly onto the access road. The access road on that diagram is measured as 21ft wide with C, sharing the other 12 ft across that for the access to their garage (our land was split with thiers and they transferred us that access point). Nowhere does it mention anything about crossing property B, hence the first post asking about the clauses contained in their register regarding not allowing to interfere or obstruct anyone else's easements or possible legal easements/ROW.

The presence of the cars parked in front of property B garage means we cannot get our vehicle onto our property. If they parked inside the garage, it wouldn't be a problem, As property B's end of land is undetermined and open, we are unsure or unclear where their land legally ends, but the confusion is why we have scaled map evidence of rear access granted if it's not written in anywhere other than our conveyance deeds with property C. The mortgage mentions that access to garage space is also a condition of the mortgage leading me to believe even more we do not have to have permission from any one else other than the council.
hope that makes sense.
the “diagram” that was attached to the deed might well show that the owner had created an entrance but it cannot convey RoWs or similar
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