boundary dispute

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tippyster
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:03 pm

boundary dispute

Post by tippyster »

Hello all.

I have lived in my house for almost 17 years and my neighbours were there when I moved in. No issues before a year or so ago. That’s when they have had a loft extension and ground floor extension done. It has been a nightmare, with his and his builders behaviour awful and there is a dispute ongoing here regrarding not ahering to the PWA he signed.

Also, another potential dispute is arising, which is the one I want advice on. The new ground floor extension appears to be (according to the chimney line) in the correct boundary line, but the fence that separates our gardens now “appears” to be in my neighbours garden. He wants to move it, so that it is in line with the extension. He has never mentioned the fence position in the 17 years. I get why he would want to move the fence.

Yesterday (Friday)I found out from a surveyor that he plans, on Monday, to get some builders in and move the fence to where he wants it. He has not had a boundary survey done to establish the boundary line, nor have I agreed to this.
I have written him an email today and sent it, but he may not see the email in time or just ignore it.
What are my rights if he goes ahead with this?
horace25
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by horace25 »

You need to check your deeds to see who is responsible for the fence.If im correct it should have T to say who is responible for that side of the boundry.If it does mot have T or any information on your deeds regarding boundries,you have to assume it is shared.I have the same issue with my neighbours who is adamant their fence is theirs even though it does not say this in the deeds.Good luck to you
MacadamB53
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by MacadamB53 »

horace25 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 6:43 pmYou need to check your deeds to see who is responsible for the fence.If im correct it should have T to say who is responible for that side of the boundry.If it does mot have T or any information on your deeds regarding boundries,you have to assume it is shared.I have the same issue with my neighbours who is adamant their fence is theirs even though it does not say this in the deeds.Good luck to you
you are not correct - a ‘T’ mark on its own has no meaning (it must be referenced in the wording of the deed)
tippyster
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by tippyster »

Maca/horace - I read online that a T does represent the owner of the fence. Maca - this is definitely wrong is it? My deeds just have a red rectangle around the plot.
Rushton
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by Rushton »

tippyster wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:26 pm My deeds just have a red rectangle around the plot.
That's the title plan, there should also be a title register with all the textual stuff.
Collaborate
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by Collaborate »

tippyster wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:26 pm Maca/horace - I read online that a T does represent the owner of the fence. Maca - this is definitely wrong is it? My deeds just have a red rectangle around the plot.
Mac is right. The starting point for identifying the meaning of the T marks is the office copy entries. If they are silent as to the meaning of the T marks you need to look at the deed that first used that plan and see what it had to say about the meaning ascribed to the T marks.
tippyster
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by tippyster »

In the "schedule of restrictive covenents" it says at the end...

"NOTE 1 : The Eastern boundary of the land in this title is affected by a "T" mark on the said plan, as referred to entry number 1, above."

The plan shows a red rectangle, but no T. The plan has what looks like a NSEW diagram with an arrow, which one direction with an arrow, I assume North. But, as I said, I'm assuming that's the "compass" as it's the only thing on the diagram that might be and the arrow is facing North of my property.

Entry number 1, earlier in the "schedule of restrictive covenants" says the following...

"Each purchaser is forthwith to make and afterwards to maintain a good and sufficient fence next the road and on the sides of his land market T within the boundary of the plan. In case such Purchaser or Owner of any lot after one month's notice from teh adjoining owner fail or refuse to erect such a fence the adjoinig owner shall be at liberty to erect the same and recvoer the costthereoffrom teh Purchaser on demand."
MacadamB53
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by MacadamB53 »

tippyster wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:46 pm In the "schedule of restrictive covenents" it says at the end...

"NOTE 1 : The Eastern boundary of the land in this title is affected by a "T" mark on the said plan, as referred to entry number 1, above."

The plan shows a red rectangle, but no T. The plan has what looks like a NSEW diagram with an arrow, which one direction with an arrow, I assume North. But, as I said, I'm assuming that's the "compass" as it's the only thing on the diagram that might be and the arrow is facing North of my property.

Entry number 1, earlier in the "schedule of restrictive covenants" says the following...

"Each purchaser is forthwith to make and afterwards to maintain a good and sufficient fence next the road and on the sides of his land market T within the boundary of the plan. In case such Purchaser or Owner of any lot after one month's notice from teh adjoining owner fail or refuse to erect such a fence the adjoinig owner shall be at liberty to erect the same and recvoer the costthereoffrom teh Purchaser on demand."
the bit I’ve underlined is referring to the plan which accompanied the deed - not the HMLR title plan with the red outline.

is the “problem” neighbour on the other side of your eastern boundary?

kind regards, Mac
tippyster
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by tippyster »

The only plan I have on the document that my solicitor gave me all those years ago is the one with the red rectangle around my property (no T or anythign else) and has the heading "H. M. LAND REGISTRY"..

Yes, the "problem" neighbour is on the East.

Appreciate your help.
Rushton
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by Rushton »

It seems they never got round to putting the T on the plan (used an old version maybe) but instead refer to the effect a drawn T would have in the deed. As its your red bounded curtilage and the eastern boundary is so denoted, it's your fence.

BTW as far as I know, the requirement to maintain the fence applied to the first transferee when the area was divided up. When they sold the plot on, the requirement did not transfer to the next owner because they were not party to the original contract.

That said, the boundary could be contested by the neighbour although they'd be unlikely to win if you have had the land for 17 yrs and this was the first you had heard of an issue. It does not give them the right to fark about with your fence.
tippyster
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by tippyster »

Thank you Rushton.

My neighbour thinks he can do what he wants so I'm expecting him to do something with the fence.

I suppose if he does, I would be able to take him to court for criminal damage and trespass?

Might be costly to me.
MacadamB53
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Re: boundary dispute

Post by MacadamB53 »

tippyster wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:27 am The only plan I have on the document that my solicitor gave me all those years ago is the one with the red rectangle around my property (no T or anythign else) and has the heading "H. M. LAND REGISTRY"..

Yes, the "problem" neighbour is on the East.

Appreciate your help.
what boundary features mark the eastern boundary please? and how long have these been in situ?
tippyster
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:03 pm

Re: boundary dispute

Post by tippyster »

The fence between the 2 gardens, which has been there since I moved in 17 years ago (my neighbour moved in just before I did).

I suppose you could say the new extension is a boundary too?

He had another extension there, knocking it down before building the new one, but I think that one was slightly more to his side than the new one (so not quite on to the "boundary" if you follow the chimney down). I hope that is clear!

The old extension was in place when I moved in.

Right at the back of the garden there is a large brick shed that he has (the end of which is in line with the existing fence). This was built in place of a previous shed a number of years ago (around 8 think). In order to build it, my neighbours took the fence down and I allowed them to not have to replace the fence there and leave the brick shed end open. (which I wish I hadn't now as it looks censored).

So, from the house to the back of the garden there is...his new extension followed by the existing fence followed by his brick shed. The existing fnce and his brick shed are around 7cm more into "his" garden that the extension, which is why he wants to move the fence. Don't get me wrong - I understand why he wants to move the fence and I'm not 100% against it. But only if he follows due process - which at the moment he's threatening not to because we have a dispute over a PWA for his new loft and downstairs extension. And of course, I need the fence up to my standards too. He will no doubt not care about my side.
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