Shed attached to party wall

vuego100
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by vuego100 »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:38 pm
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:50 pm

however, the circumstances under which a surveyor is engaged are not going to happen - the neighbour isn’t going to send the OP a PW notice before carrying out repairs (because they have no intention of carrying out repairs) and the neighbour isn’t going to challenge the OP if they receive a PW notice from the OP regarding repairs the OP intends on carrying out (because they’re happy for the OP to repair).

have I missed something?
Yes you have. OP can serve notice under the PWA and the surveyor can apportion the cost of works as they see fit. Unless OP has omitted anything of significance the cost is likely to fall entirely upon the neighbour.
Would a surveyor be appointed if the neighbour just agrees, there would be no award to make?
or
Couldn't the neighbour instruct his own PW surveyor to argue the toss that both surveyors fees and cost of work should be borne by the OP as he is the one benefiting from the work? :wink:
Collaborate
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by Collaborate »

vuego100 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:10 pm
Would a surveyor be appointed if the neighbour just agrees, there would be no award to make?
or
Couldn't the neighbour instruct his own PW surveyor to argue the toss that both surveyors fees and cost of work should be borne by the OP as he is the one benefiting from the work? :wink:
The neighbour could require OP to appoint a separate surveyor to look after their interests and there may be a third surveyor appointed to act as tribunal. However each party appointed surveyor must remain impartial and they are not a gun for hire. They can approve a settlement without the consent of their "side". If you want to know more about the process you can read this: https://www.rics.org/globalassets/rics- ... e-rics.pdf

The surveyors get to decide who pays them. The neighbour doesn't argue anything. Their surveyor does on their behalf, and they are not the mouthpiece of the neighbour.
MacadamB53
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:38 pm
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:50 pm

however, the circumstances under which a surveyor is engaged are not going to happen - the neighbour isn’t going to send the OP a PW notice before carrying out repairs (because they have no intention of carrying out repairs) and the neighbour isn’t going to challenge the OP if they receive a PW notice from the OP regarding repairs the OP intends on carrying out (because they’re happy for the OP to repair).

have I missed something?
Yes you have. OP can serve notice under the PWA and the surveyor can apportion the cost of works as they see fit. Unless OP has omitted anything of significance the cost is likely to fall entirely upon the neighbour.
OP serves notice under the PWA, neighbour accepts… …when does the surveyor get appointed?
Collaborate
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by Collaborate »

How likely is it, Mac, that the neighbour is going to agree to stand the cost of this?

You started off this thread by saying the PWA didn't apply to OP.
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:00 am
does the Party Act go as far as stating a party wall MUST be repaired?
You then appeared to accept that the Act can be used to compel repair of the wall: and you were tantalisingly close to getting it (in red) but then asserted that OP could not force neighbour to contribute (blue) - if you have read the Act and the link above I presume you now accept that is incorrect.:
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:25 am surveyor would only be appointed if a Party Wall dispute arose - ie neighbour didn’t consent after receiving notice from OP (or vice versa)…

…why the neighbour would opt for such a route, if they’re not wanting to contribute, is debatable…

in short, doesn’t present a scenario for OP to force neighbour to contribute.

kind regards, Mac
Then you claimed that the Act could only authorise the OP to carry out works and seemed to think that whoever served the notice had to bear financial responsibility for the work:
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:50 pm I understand.

however, the circumstances under which a surveyor is engaged are not going to happen - the neighbour isn’t going to send the OP a PW notice before carrying out repairs (because they have no intention of carrying out repairs) and the neighbour isn’t going to challenge the OP if they receive a PW notice from the OP regarding repairs the OP intends on carrying out (because they’re happy for the OP to repair).

have I missed something?
The surveyor gets appointed when the neighbour refuses to pay for the works. That is something the surveyor has the authority (and responsibility) to adjudicate upon. Why would you think they wouldn't?
MacadamB53
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:45 pm How likely is it, Mac, that the neighbour is going to agree to stand the cost of this?

You started off this thread by saying the PWA didn't apply to OP.
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:00 am
does the Party Act go as far as stating a party wall MUST be repaired?
You then appeared to accept that the Act can be used to compel repair of the wall: and you were tantalisingly close to getting it (in red) but then asserted that OP could not force neighbour to contribute (blue) - if you have read the Act and the link above I presume you now accept that is incorrect.:
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:25 am surveyor would only be appointed if a Party Wall dispute arose - ie neighbour didn’t consent after receiving notice from OP (or vice versa)…

…why the neighbour would opt for such a route, if they’re not wanting to contribute, is debatable…

in short, doesn’t present a scenario for OP to force neighbour to contribute.

kind regards, Mac
Then you claimed that the Act could only authorise the OP to carry out works and seemed to think that whoever served the notice had to bear financial responsibility for the work:
MacadamB53 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:50 pm I understand.

however, the circumstances under which a surveyor is engaged are not going to happen - the neighbour isn’t going to send the OP a PW notice before carrying out repairs (because they have no intention of carrying out repairs) and the neighbour isn’t going to challenge the OP if they receive a PW notice from the OP regarding repairs the OP intends on carrying out (because they’re happy for the OP to repair).

have I missed something?
The surveyor gets appointed when the neighbour refuses to pay for the works. That is something the surveyor has the authority (and responsibility) to adjudicate upon. Why would you think they wouldn't?
seems I’ve missed something then, yes?

where in the PWA does it state a surveyor can be appointed, other than where interested parties cannot agree?
Collaborate
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by Collaborate »

Irrelevant. If they don’t agree about who should pay then they don’t agree.
MacadamB53
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:48 pm Irrelevant. If they don’t agree about who should pay then they don’t agree.
are you saying that OP can serve a PW notice on neighbour which states neighbour is to pay for the works it outlines? thereby forcing the neighbour to not accept?
Collaborate
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by Collaborate »

Of course. The surveyor can decide on the scope and extent of the works and can also decide on who pays for the works and their own costs. Why would you not think that something the surveyor gets to decide on is something that can form the subject matter of the dispute?
MacadamB53
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:36 amOf course. The surveyor can decide on the scope and extent of the works and can also decide on who pays for the works and their own costs. Why would you not think that something the surveyor gets to decide on is something that can form the subject matter of the dispute?
that isn’t what I asked - you have explained that if the OP were to send the neighbour a PW notice this will/could result in a surveyor being appointed…

which is it?
Collaborate
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by Collaborate »

MacadamB53 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:53 am
Collaborate wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:36 amOf course. The surveyor can decide on the scope and extent of the works and can also decide on who pays for the works and their own costs. Why would you not think that something the surveyor gets to decide on is something that can form the subject matter of the dispute?
that isn’t what I asked - you have explained that if the OP were to send the neighbour a PW notice this will/could result in a surveyor being appointed…

which is it?
You are quite the nit-picking contrarian this morning aren't you?

You asked a question,
MacadamB53 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:32 am are you saying that OP can serve a PW notice on neighbour which states neighbour is to pay for the works it outlines? thereby forcing the neighbour to not accept?
which I answered:
Collaborate wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:36 am Of course.
I then asked my own question to try and understand whether you had a view that you wished to share:
Collaborate wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:36 am Why would you not think that something the surveyor gets to decide on is something that can form the subject matter of the dispute?
Your response was strange:
MacadamB53 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:53 am that isn’t what I asked
If I answer a yes or no question in the affirmative to what extent do you think I am not answering your question?

You then said you didn't know whether the negative response from the neighbour would inevitably result in a surveyor being appointed, or not:
MacadamB53 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:53 am you have explained that if the OP were to send the neighbour a PW notice this will/could result in a surveyor being appointed…

which is it?
This is a new question.

The dispute process is set out in s10 of the Act. If OP does not want to get that far OP can withdraw their proposal for works.

Nothing in the Act (s3) says explicitly that the notice of works should specify who should pay, but it doesn't exclude that, only making clear what it must include:
1)Before exercising any right conferred on him by section 2 a building owner shall serve on any adjoining owner a notice (in this Act referred to as a “party structure notice”) stating—
(a)the name and address of the building owner;
(b)the nature and particulars of the proposed work including, in cases where the building owner proposes to construct special foundations, plans, sections and details of construction of the special foundations together with reasonable particulars of the loads to be carried thereby; and
(c)the date on which the proposed work will begin.
Therefore the proposal that neighbour bears the cost as they were the ones that caused the defect is part of the "particulars of work".

Do you have any advice for OP?
tiberius44
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by tiberius44 »

Hi and thank you all for the valuable insight.
I am very confused and it is my bad but I have the feeling I am very wrong and is not a party wall.
My house is linked dettached. The garage is the link with next door neighbor. 80% of the wall inside the garage is shared with the kitchen next door. At the front is the neighbor front wall not attached to my property at the back is 20% of my garage wall followed by the fence. Fence is marked with T so is mine.
The 20% of my wall in the neighbor garden is independent and not giving any support to neighbor house.
So I think because of that the 20% is entirely my wall and I am very angry how am I suppose to maintain it if neighbor glued a shed to it so my wall is now supporting his shed.
The exact wording from deeds about the wall and I will have to maintain and repair:
The fence or other boundary structures on the sides of the plot marked T within the said plan PROVIDED THAT any retaining wall erected along a boundary of the Plot with the adjoining land on Development and that part of the wall of the buildings on the Plot supporting any building on the adjoining land of the Develompent are deemed party walls and shall be maintained jointly by the Transferee and the registered propietor for the time being of such adjoining land.

Fact is he is ignoring my request to remove the shed and I m not now sure if is a party wall because if it isn't it will be so much easier to force a removal.
tiberius44
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by tiberius44 »

I thought I share some information I got from the estate agent that shown me around.
In the deeds the fence / and garage wall are marked with T
According to the agent that means is within my boundary and wall / fence belongs to me.
If it was marked with Letter H than the fence / boundary is shared.
The neighbour was well aware of that when he put up the shed becuase I also spoke with previous owner and he told me that the neighbor demanded a new fence put up when the house went on sell.
I am furious with this people. Quick to ask for fence replacements and than go on to disrespect my wall and attach sheds and drill into it.
Granted the bit of the garage wall that is shared with his kitchen is a party wall, but not the wall that is not shared with his building.
I am giving serious thoughts into reporting criminal damage I think
tiberius44
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by tiberius44 »

Just an update. My solicitor confirmed that the wall is 100% mine but the LEI wont get involved because is a minimiss trespass and I will have to prove damage, damp damage.
It is outrageous that someone can just go and do what they like to someone else property so I am going to report them for criminal damage and I hope the police will help
Collaborate
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by Collaborate »

tiberius44 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:45 am Just an update. My solicitor confirmed that the wall is 100% mine but the LEI wont get involved because is a minimiss trespass and I will have to prove damage, damp damage.
It is outrageous that someone can just go and do what they like to someone else property so I am going to report them for criminal damage and I hope the police will help
The police will not get involved. It is a civil matter.

I suggest you comission a report from an independent damp specialist proving damage.
tiberius44
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Re: Shed attached to party wall

Post by tiberius44 »

Thank you Collaborate but he had to drill into the wall to attach the shed. Surely that is criminal damage is my wall
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