Boundary

Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Re: Boundary

Post by Cosmos2000 »

Here is the latest from their solicitor, I've trimmed it down a little.


Dear Sirs


You state in your letter that our client “were put to strict proof as to the entire basis of their claim, which to date remains wholly unsubstantiated” [sic] and that our client’s claim is “frivolous” [sic]. Whilst we do not wish to engage in a barrage of insults, we would like to point out your client’s conduct in this matter which has not been as co-operative as intimated in your letter. Furthermore, the same can be said about your client’s claim/counterclaim which still remains fully unsubstantiated and is akin to also being stated as frivolous.
You are fully aware that the pre-action protocol correspondence exists to encourage parties to exchange information and documents relevant to the dispute and for each party to act reasonably; it does not exist to replace pleadings as laid out by the Civil Procedure Rules and should not be used to undergo a fishing expedition.

That being said, we are instructed to say as follows:
• In regard to:
• Your surveyors finding and the photographs [provided in your letter labelled ‘photo 1’ and an unlabelled photo but which is clearly the 4th photo]:


o Our client has previously disagreed with your client’s view with reasons already provided. Thus, our client’s position remains the same and will not be repeated here.
• Access to the flue/ownership of that parcel of land:
o Yourclientisawareofthis;however,weremindyouagain.Thelandwhichsurrounds the flue belongs to our client, thus they have automatic rights of access. As for positioning their flue in such a manner; you will be aware that our client is not an expert in boiler maintenance nor are they engineers to be able to position flues. The flue has been positioned in accordance with advice from a Corgi Boiler Engineer, a specialist in his field, which not only provided the advice, but also undertook the work. The flue is positioned accordingly following a change in regulations in 2010.

o Wenoteyourclientintendstorelyontheplanwithastampstating“resubmitted–9 Sep 1989” obtained from Sandwell Council (“the council”). Our client confirms that the plan you have disclosed in your letter is not an accurate reflection of what was approved and what was built by your client. It is unclear as to whether your client has withheld from you the later approved plans, or whether you have chosen to disclose certain extracts. Our client is aware that your client submitted building plans on three separate occasions. It is not known why the first two were rejected however, inferences can be drawn based on your client’s history and conduct. We now enclose at Exhibit 1, a copy of the plan our client has obtained from the council. Our client confirms this is the plan your client has built to which does not include ownership or the rights to access the land surrounding the flue for your client.

Furthermore, if you were to compare the front of the house of your client’s property to that of the plan he submitted to the council, you will clearly see that your client has built a brick pillar on our client’s wall which was omitted on his plans to the council. A clear indication of your client’s bad conduct.


The owners at the time submitted the plans which were approved but subsequently, the owners did not build. The plan clearly shows the boundary at the front of the garage and refers to the fence which runs in a straight line. This plan also evidences the land surrounding the flue as belonging to our client. We further enclose at Exhibit 3, an approved plan dated 2003 from the previous owners of our client’s property at the time. This plan clearly shows the land that the previous owners lost due to your client’s actions in not building their extension correctly. The plan also evidences the land surrounding the flue and also includes the guttering. You will note that both these plans were approved by the council thus further indicating our client owns the land in dispute.
• Our client’s wall:
o Wehavepreviouslyprovidedreasonsandourclient’spositionremainsthesame.We will not repeat the facts here, however in addition to our client’s position, we bring to your attention that you state your client has maintained this wall (and not our client) and this has benefited our client (your letter dated 20.08.2021), yet no evidence to support this has been provided. We now enclose for your attention a copy of a receipt from Mr Brian Zgorselski dated 15.09.2019 whereby our client had made payment for Mr Zgorselski to undertake repair works to the wall. This clearly evidences that it is in fact our client that has maintained the wall, incurring costs, and that your client has benefited. We further remind you that in your letter dated 20.08.2021 you agreed that

that the ‘T’ on the Conveyance Plan depicts the boundary which our client is responsible to maintain, and which we believe a court will agree that is determinative of ownership. We have noted that your client is cherry picking plans to rely on to fit his narrative.
As stated above and enclosed, our client believes that if the matter proceeds to court, then the court will not agree with your view of our client’s claim as being frivolous, nor will they agree to your client’s counterclaim of trespass.
In light of the information and documents we have provided, we urge you to reconsider and agree to instructing a single joint expert (“SJE”) to delineate the location of the legal boundary between our clients’ respective properties both at the front and the rear. We propose both parties to put forth nominations of suitable experts if agreed.

Should your next response not agree with this, then our client has instructed us to commence legal proceedings without further correspondence with you.
despair
Posts: 17597
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:07 am

Re: Boundary

Post by despair »

If he is not actually disabled and claims benefits ...report him to DWP they will tie him up with paperwork
Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Re: Boundary

Post by Cosmos2000 »

I'm sure he has been reported by fellow neighbours but its about providing evidence to DWP.
He knows how's to play the benefit system, they seeks sympathy and he plays on peoples hart strings towards his disability.

This case has been ongoing for over 14 months not seen any form of substantive evidence, their surveyors report referred to 'our client says ' not facts to evidence. Our surveyors report is more fact based with measures and evidence that they choose to ignore and are not providing any evidence.

They are forcing us to appoint a joint surveyor as they have nothing to loose thinking they could gain something.
We already have paid for substantive boundary expert report that we have shared any they made no reference to it.
Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by Cosmos2000 »

We are locked in with solicitors, neighbours are continuing with threatening correspondence for court proceedings, ongoing for 18 months.

My mother & dad lived here over 32 years never had issues with their two previous predecessors. Parents have an expert RICS boundary survey completed with no issues. Neighbours don't agree with our surveyors report and are adamant to appoint a single joint Surveyor.

Neighbours moved in 14 years ago recently claiming about 1 meter into parents garden full depth plus space side of our house and one the front retaining wall. Nothing concrete in the deeds and land registry is just a red outline.

To-date we have not seen any form of evidence that the boundary has been moved or changed.

In-addition to our RICS boundary survey report, we also provided old photographs from mid 1990's which neighbours have chosen to ignore or comment on these. Also provided sale particulars from zoopla archives showing the boundary fence.

During the last 18 months their solicitor has not provided any evidence goes on about court proceedings, earlier letters they were all focused on costs, compensation and blaming us for damage to their fence.

We have now had another letter for my parents to decide on appointing a single joint surveyor or they will issue court proceeding within 14 days.

My father and mother are very distrought and feels as they are being bullied where the neighbours have a plan in mind to take their house.
MacadamB53
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
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Re: Boundary

Post by MacadamB53 »

viewtopic.php?p=231111#p231111

is this the same dispute?
span
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:34 am

Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by span »

Your parents position seems pretty secure, on the information you've supplied.

They need do nothing. Let the neighbour say or do as they please, there's no need to interact further with them.

That leaves the only action for the neighbors is to put up or shut up - take it to court.
CherryBlack
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:47 pm

Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by CherryBlack »

Sounds hellish, Cosmos.

With their solicitor focusing on 'costs', it sounds as tho' they have little else to threaten with.

Your parents have had a RICS boundary survey carried out? To confirm the disputed boundaries? What did it say - exactly?

Silly Q - do your parents have Legal Protection included in their house insurance? (More to the point, did they have when this s*** started up?!)

It sounds as tho' this neighb has lost any opportunity to resolve this with good will, so until they provide evidence, I wouldn't agree to anything. If they want to appoint their own boundary surveyor, let them get on with it. A joint surveyor can be a good call when both parties are reasonable and actually wish to resolve a confused matter, and they agree to accept the outcome. But this ain't that.

If they send letters from their solicitor, I would be careful to reply to them if a reply is required, so your folks don't end up losing by silly default. Perhaps worth coming back on here with the contents of any, so that learned folks can hopefully advise. But replies should be non-committal - don't let them get drawn in to any arguments, discussions, defences. Just a simple and factual, "your client has seen the outcome of the RICS surveyor's report, which confirms our understanding and belief that the existing boundary is correct." SOMETHING like that, but you'd need to have it clarified as being suitable - don't listen to me.

Legal Protection? Please tell me they have...

(If your folks don't, but you do, there's a good chance they'll still advise you - eg on the wording of such rebuttals.)
Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by Cosmos2000 »

Hi

Yes they have legal protection, solicitors been exchanging correspondence with ongoing letters for 18 months. We did initially ask to sort in a amicable way. They claimed more of our garden and some extra bit of parcel land at the side. Alarm bells rang where they possible looking to take over my parents house.

Neighbours are very strange I know they claim benefits, own 3+ houses and don't work, seems like they have some experience in this field and have had successful outcomes with claims crash 4 cash and playing the system.

Neighbours have also had 2 RICS Surveyor (Not experts in boundaries), the first one produced a one page report stating it was not accurate and difficult to determine the boundary. Their second surveyor literally makes many reference that the 'Claimant is saying' comments like my father has moved the boundary'.

While our surveyor a RICS Specialist in Boundary's produced a 18 page report, stating neighbours surveys are flawed he supported with his findings and case law. They have ignored this report, all the evidence we have provided in our defence photo's many years before they moved and there have been no issues from their predecessors.

We are also in contact with their predecessors, who also had fence/boundary issues with the same neighbours as he owns the property next to them (they now rent this out). Their predecessor at the time appointed a solicitor where the matter was resolved in a few months.

Their solicitors letters ofter goes on and on about trespass, compensation, costs and digress to creating further issues, the latest that my father has been steeling their land many years prior occupancy. They continuously mention litigation going to court in almost every letter while we keep providing details in our defence that they ignore or twist into allegations.

They now are now being dominant and forceful for a joint surveyor, I guess this is their chance of trying to claim something as they have not bothered to provide any substantive evidence that has been requested by parent solicitors on at least 4 letters.
MacadamB53
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Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by MacadamB53 »

hi Cosmos2000,

is the dispute you’ve outlined on this new thread the same as the one on your existing thread?

viewtopic.php?t=22711

kind regards, Mac
Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by Cosmos2000 »

Hi Mac

Yes that's the same case still on going, apologies if I have done something wrong.
Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Re: Boundary

Post by Cosmos2000 »

Hi Mac

Yes same case still on going, apologies if I have done something wrong its the same viewtopic.php?p=231111#p231111
.
Luigi Mario
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by Luigi Mario »

Cosmos, is there anything you're not providing? Is everything accurate? Everything I'm seeing so far is harassment.

As others stated in this thread and previous thread, your neighbours are simply bullies trying to create fear and intimidation. We'd a similar process with our not so nice neighbour and their solicitor is dodgy as hell.

The Pandemic has created a huge backlogged of court cases. So going to court anytime soon is going to be laughable. I also imagine there will be someone reviewing the both parties cases like a barrister and will determine your NFH has a weak case. The barrister may urge your NFH to go into mediation if they are actually serious in taking it to court.

What you and your parents needs to do is cut the neighbours from hell out of your life much as possible. So far your parents wasted time and money on scammers and they're still persistent. Never give control to bullies, you take control.
MacadamB53
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
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Re: Boundary

Post by MacadamB53 »

hi Cosmos2000,

best stick to one thread then:
Cosmos2000 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:46 pm We are locked in with solicitors, neighbours are continuing with threatening correspondence for court proceedings, ongoing for 18 months.

My mother & dad lived here over 32 years never had issues with their two previous predecessors. Parents have an expert RICS boundary survey completed with no issues. Neighbours don't agree with our surveyors report and are adamant to appoint a single joint Surveyor.

Neighbours moved in 14 years ago recently claiming about 1 meter into parents garden full depth plus space side of our house and one the front retaining wall. Nothing concrete in the deeds and land registry is just a red outline.

To-date we have not seen any form of evidence that the boundary has been moved or changed.

In-addition to our RICS boundary survey report, we also provided old photographs from mid 1990's which neighbours have chosen to ignore or comment on these. Also provided sale particulars from zoopla archives showing the boundary fence.

During the last 18 months their solicitor has not provided any evidence goes on about court proceedings, earlier letters they were all focused on costs, compensation and blaming us for damage to their fence.

We have now had another letter for my parents to decide on appointing a single joint surveyor or they will issue court proceeding within 14 days.

My father and mother are very distrought and feels as they are being bullied where the neighbours have a plan in mind to take their house.
Cosmos2000
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 am

Re: Ongoing Boundary dispute

Post by Cosmos2000 »

The mountains of evidence I have dug out and provided from many years prior to them purchasing the house has been ignored by them. Their solicitor often state they have no comments. They go on tantrums with a blame culture, jump onto new claims. Originally it was the back garden, damage to their fence and their hedges, compensation and court. This develops to the front retaining wall, now they saying my dad has been taking land since we purchased this house over 30 years ago and their land is half way into our kitchen.

With these people there is no reasoning and feels they will continue bullying until they get their way. Their solicitors seems to be milking every possible opportunity and persistent for compensation and demanding a single expert.

I don't see why we should engage in a single joint surveyor they have NOT provided any supporting evidence, Surely a joint survey would assist them more as todate they have not helped to narrow down or resolve any issues.

I have been upmost honest with the whole issue on here no reason to fabricate.

My original topic shows parents house is on lower ground, I struggle to see how they would be entitle to any of this land. viewtopic.php?t=22711

We find this really concerning and my parents are distressed that people and their solicitors is entertaining this behaviour.
MacadamB53
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 100
Number of topics per page: 50

Re: Boundary

Post by MacadamB53 »

from the duplicate thread:
span wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:06 pm Your parents position seems pretty secure, on the information you've supplied.

They need do nothing. Let the neighbour say or do as they please, there's no need to interact further with them.

That leaves the only action for the neighbors is to put up or shut up - take it to court.
CherryBlack wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:58 pm Sounds hellish, Cosmos.

With their solicitor focusing on 'costs', it sounds as tho' they have little else to threaten with.

Your parents have had a RICS boundary survey carried out? To confirm the disputed boundaries? What did it say - exactly?

Silly Q - do your parents have Legal Protection included in their house insurance? (More to the point, did they have when this s*** started up?!)

It sounds as tho' this neighb has lost any opportunity to resolve this with good will, so until they provide evidence, I wouldn't agree to anything. If they want to appoint their own boundary surveyor, let them get on with it. A joint surveyor can be a good call when both parties are reasonable and actually wish to resolve a confused matter, and they agree to accept the outcome. But this ain't that.

If they send letters from their solicitor, I would be careful to reply to them if a reply is required, so your folks don't end up losing by silly default. Perhaps worth coming back on here with the contents of any, so that learned folks can hopefully advise. But replies should be non-committal - don't let them get drawn in to any arguments, discussions, defences. Just a simple and factual, "your client has seen the outcome of the RICS surveyor's report, which confirms our understanding and belief that the existing boundary is correct." SOMETHING like that, but you'd need to have it clarified as being suitable - don't listen to me.

Legal Protection? Please tell me they have...

(If your folks don't, but you do, there's a good chance they'll still advise you - eg on the wording of such rebuttals.)
Cosmos2000 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:28 pm Hi

Yes they have legal protection, solicitors been exchanging correspondence with ongoing letters for 18 months. We did initially ask to sort in a amicable way. They claimed more of our garden and some extra bit of parcel land at the side. Alarm bells rang where they possible looking to take over my parents house.

Neighbours are very strange I know they claim benefits, own 3+ houses and don't work, seems like they have some experience in this field and have had successful outcomes with claims crash 4 cash and playing the system.

Neighbours have also had 2 RICS Surveyor (Not experts in boundaries), the first one produced a one page report stating it was not accurate and difficult to determine the boundary. Their second surveyor literally makes many reference that the 'Claimant is saying' comments like my father has moved the boundary'.

While our surveyor a RICS Specialist in Boundary's produced a 18 page report, stating neighbours surveys are flawed he supported with his findings and case law. They have ignored this report, all the evidence we have provided in our defence photo's many years before they moved and there have been no issues from their predecessors.

We are also in contact with their predecessors, who also had fence/boundary issues with the same neighbours as he owns the property next to them (they now rent this out). Their predecessor at the time appointed a solicitor where the matter was resolved in a few months.

Their solicitors letters ofter goes on and on about trespass, compensation, costs and digress to creating further issues, the latest that my father has been steeling their land many years prior occupancy. They continuously mention litigation going to court in almost every letter while we keep providing details in our defence that they ignore or twist into allegations.

They now are now being dominant and forceful for a joint surveyor, I guess this is their chance of trying to claim something as they have not bothered to provide any substantive evidence that has been requested by parent solicitors on at least 4 letters.
Luigi Mario wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:50 pm Cosmos, is there anything you're not providing? Is everything accurate? Everything I'm seeing so far is harassment.

As others stated in this thread and previous thread, your neighbours are simply bullies trying to create fear and intimidation. We'd a similar process with our not so nice neighbour and their solicitor is dodgy as hell.

The Pandemic has created a huge backlogged of court cases. So going to court anytime soon is going to be laughable. I also imagine there will be someone reviewing the both parties cases like a barrister and will determine your NFH has a weak case. The barrister may urge your NFH to go into mediation if they are actually serious in taking it to court.

What you and your parents needs to do is cut the neighbours from hell out of your life much as possible. So far your parents wasted time and money on scammers and they're still persistent. Never give control to bullies, you take control.
Cosmos2000 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:09 am The mountains of evidence I have dug out and provided from many years prior to them purchasing the house has been ignored by them. Their solicitor often state they have no comments. They go on tantrums with a blame culture, jump onto new claims. Originally it was the back garden, damage to their fence and their hedges, compensation and court. This develops to the front retaining wall, now they saying my dad has been taking land since we purchased this house over 30 years ago and their land is half way into our kitchen.

With these people there is no reasoning and feels they will continue bullying until they get their way. Their solicitors seems to be milking every possible opportunity and persistent for compensation and demanding a single expert.

I don't see why we should engage in a single joint surveyor they have NOT provided any supporting evidence, Surely a joint survey would assist them more as todate they have not helped to narrow down or resolve any issues.

I have been upmost honest with the whole issue on here no reason to fabricate.

My original topic shows parents house is on lower ground, I struggle to see how they would be entitle to any of this land. viewtopic.php?t=22711

We find this really concerning and my parents are distressed that people and their solicitors is entertaining this behaviour.
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